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Old 03-14-2008, 09:31 AM   #616
nachtflug
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currently listed on Marks Vintage Swapmeet for $2K.

this guy must not be following the current market. its worth twice that easy.

1981 495 twin shock. even more feared than a 490 Maico.

the forgotten king.

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Old 03-14-2008, 09:34 AM   #617
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http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/swapmeet.cgi
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:52 AM   #618
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1981 495 twin shock. even more feared than a 490 Maico.

Why is that?
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:58 AM   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittycactus
1981 495 twin shock. even more feared than a 490 Maico.

Why is that?
"1981 KTM 495 Twin Shock - AHRMA Gran Prix 500 Eligible

This is it - the Great White - clocked at 123.75 MPH at El Mirage dry lake by Dirt Bike Magazine in June of 1981 (geared accordingly, of course!) - this bike offers plenty of great power and excellent handling to match. The only year KTM produced a twin shock, non-reed 2-stroke 495 makes this a rare and highly sought after motorcycle by vintage enthusiasts and racers world wide. "

just because it is I guess...
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:21 PM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad
I'm sure that someone knows the story better than I, but basacilly some of the Japanese companies actually supported select companies like Mugen or Yosamura (sp?) to do R&D on their own as a way to expidite new technologies. Mugen stuff was all "works" or prototype with no real production runs of their products, so they weren't competition to the factory bottom line.
Long, long ago in another life I worked briefly (very briefly) for Yoshimura Racing when it was first under the auspices of Dale Alexander and Star Thompson. I had the good fortune to meet Pops a couple of times when he visited the US shop. Yes, I'm bragging a little... LOL

Anyway, I was told that Pops had free access to Honda's parts bins in Japan to hand select parts for his own purposes and that he was Honda's go-to guy when it came to thorny, problems of making things go fast. Essentially, his genius was clearly recognized and so he was given free rein to do what interested him and Honda would be privy to the data.

As for the Mugen stuff, I don't know much at all about it but I recall that Vintage Iron in CA was restoring a Mugen Honda for someone long about 2000 or so. Saw the bike in the shop about half done.

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Old 03-14-2008, 07:16 PM   #621
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Mugen was old man Honda's kid's company. Think Edsel to Henry.

Here's a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugen-Honda
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:23 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by kittycactus
The Mugen supposedly uses a Honda engine and I remember discussion here about the CCM or KSI, can't remember which, also using a Honda engine. Did Honda not care who got a hold of their engines and for what purposes? Seems like they would try and prohibit the use of their engines in someone else's bike that is being sold for profit.
Mugen is a major Honda offshoot that was started by H. Honda's son, looks like they were doing a few bike hop up parts too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugen-Honda

edit *205*
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:08 PM   #623
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Old 03-15-2008, 06:27 AM   #624
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Originally Posted by nachtflug


Why don't you do a Youtube with them? The 250 is one noisy motha. I could run mine up the street twice, and then put it back in the garage. Wait a couple of minutes for the cops to show.
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Old 03-15-2008, 06:43 AM   #625
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Originally Posted by El Hombre
Why don't you do a Youtube with them? The 250 is one noisy motha. I could run mine up the street twice, and then put it back in the garage. Wait a couple of minutes for the cops to show.

I got a speeding ticket sitting in my driveway 10 minutes after tuning a new expansion chamber (rejetting the carb) in the 70's
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:11 AM   #626
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I wanted one of these bad when they came out...but a little beyond my teenage buget at the time! Tricker, better thumpers have come along since... but with a couple others it was at the leading edge of a fourstroke revival in the 1980's that led to the dominant designs of today.

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Old 03-15-2008, 09:47 AM   #627
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Originally Posted by roadholder
. . . a fourstroke revival in the 1980's that led to the dominant designs of today.
And all it took was handicapping the 2-strokes with half the displacement in order to appease the same manufacturers who whined about how unfair it was to run 350 2 strokes against 750 side-valves.
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:55 AM   #628
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Just read kittycactus' original post. Here is some footage of AMA motocross, mid 70's. Howerton, Ellis, etc..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXRTVFKCMic
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:25 AM   #629
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Well, one of these years I will learn to search Wikipedia before I open my piehole. Thanks for the link. I still think the Mugen is a cool bike.

Read some about about the Suzuki RH last night. I was asking about works bikes earlier and whether they were the proving ground for production models to come. Is the RH line what later became the RM line?
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:32 AM   #630
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???

Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
And all it took was handicapping the 2-strokes with half the displacement in order to appease the same manufacturers who whined about how unfair it was to run 350 2 strokes against 750 side-valves
No it didn't. Husqvarna won the first fourstroke win in 30 years in the world championship Open Class in 1993...years before the YZF400/450 and any AMA class 450/250 rules. Fourstrokes started winning again when they got light enough to race... and the traditional fourstroke advantage in traction was allowed to show through. Even in the later and much moaned about (from the two smoke camp) 250 class rules...the actual horsepower produced was initially comparable. Thumpers were just putting power to the ground instead of creating extra roost and wheelspin!

As for Harley and AMA rules. It's no secret they have been pandering to Harley for decades! "Foreign" four strokes were also penalized. Not a two stroke-four stroke issue here at all! A maximum 500 cc British single was allowed to race the 750 Harley twins. Not an OHC 500 single of course, or a 100 cc smaller 650 twin mind you...as that would be unfair!
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