ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Some Assembly Required
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-30-2010, 05:45 AM   #61
nevermind
Swamp Thing
 
nevermind's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Lost then Found
Oddometer: 2,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilbara
...this is the design spec drawing, all the rest is in mine and Paul Pinfold's head...which have a good wireless connection..


Cheers
Pilbara
Absolutely brilliant, mate. I'll take two!
nevermind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2010, 07:04 AM   #62
michnus
Vagabond, yes I try!
 
michnus's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa
Oddometer: 1,095
Need a bit off tweaking, but it seems like a plan that can work.

Subscribed......and waiting.
michnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 01:13 AM   #63
BOOTLACE
Bikie Scum.
 
BOOTLACE's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Methane Central..(Sth Gippsland)
Oddometer: 3,637
KELVIN! Will you buy a fookn CAMERA? (And learn how to use it?).

Lookn' good bloke! Keep it happenen!
B.Lace.
__________________
bootlace
BOOTLACE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 01:35 AM   #64
DRjoe
Beastly Adventurer
 
DRjoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Sunshine coast qld
Oddometer: 4,883
Thumb

Feck

You are the man.
DRjoe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 03:05 AM   #65
rarebear
Garage gadget
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Wollongong
Oddometer: 71
ooohhh yeh

What a cazy as shit project. I always had the pre-conceived idea that all BMW owners were slipper wearing, pipe smoking old bizzy bodies, i think you have smashed that concept Pilbra!!!! Mate, awesome to see someone thinking outside the square and going for a design that will take some REAL riding. Keep it comingman, waqiting with baited breath for the installments.
rarebear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 03:24 AM   #66
javahead
Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Oddometer: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilbara
PS really would like to hear from anyone who has run a solid driveshaft...as oppoosed to the vulcanised rubber connected one. On that note has any one heard of a failure of the rubbber connection on the driveshaft?
Yep. Sheared the vulcanised rubber bushing on my 1150GSA's driveshaft last November. Failure occurred suddenly and totally. That is there were no warning signs and it needed a recovery vehicle.

Bike had done 55k, about 30k of which was at my hands, and as much as possible on dirt tracks and gravel roads. OK my hands may not have been the kindest.

Is the front end to retain the GS feel of limited dive under brakes?
javahead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 03:48 AM   #67
dirt rider X
tropical traveller
 
dirt rider X's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Townsville, Australia
Oddometer: 399
Brazing

hey Pilbara, do you use an oxy set to braze or a TIG welder someone mentioned in another thread?
I had a mate now disceased that built a super single using the same technique with Reynolds? tubing.
If you TIG it do you use a shielding gas
This is an ambitious project and I wish you all the best of luck with it.
__________________
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again;
dirt rider X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 07:45 AM   #68
Berm_Rooster
Airborne Dirt
 
Berm_Rooster's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Mossel Bay, South Africa
Oddometer: 8
__________________
WHEN ALL'S BEEN SAID AND DONE
MORE'S BEEN SAID THAN DONE.
G650X Challenge 1dump '09 - ?
F650GS Dakar(fl)
2dumps '08 - '09
CR125
countless dumps '00 - '02
CB750K
plenty near hits '98 - '00
MTX50
'98
MB50
1dump '98
Berm_Rooster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 10:49 AM   #69
TBob
Offroad Fab Guy
 
TBob's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Oddometer: 693
Love the idea - but I think you are going to kill yourself. Might want to do a little welding research.
__________________
'13 BMW R1200 GS WC
01 KTM 520 EXC
Had God not driven man from the
Garden of Eden, the Sierra Club would have.
TBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 03:58 PM   #70
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,763

I think brazing is being used here as an attractive way to tack the pieces together while prototyping.



__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 04:44 PM   #71
marchyman
Cam Killer
 
marchyman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Oddometer: 6,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
I think brazing is being used here as an attractive way to tack the pieces together while prototyping.
Brazing and braze welding are two different things. Pilbara answered this in post #55. It got me looking, where I found out that at low temperatures the strength of a braze welded joint is typically stronger than the base metal.

The downside is that the weld loses strength above 200C. And you can't match colors.
marchyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2010, 05:38 PM   #72
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,763

Yes I read post 55 on semantics. Unfortunately a structure doesn't refer to semantics when it evaluates whether it will carry a load.

Brazing or braze 'welding' is a great choice if the joint is designed with enough bond area. If the bond area is large enough, the joint can certainly be stronger than the base material, for even the strongest of steel alloys.

The thing is, for a brazed joint, the fillet doesn't accrue to total bond area. This is especially relevant when the connection point is subjected to bend or shear loads. Many of them are in this inventive frame design.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 08:24 AM   #73
Pilbara OP
In the flow...
 
Pilbara's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: In the f'in city
Oddometer: 1,570
OxyAcetylene

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt rider X
hey Pilbara, do you use an oxy set to braze or a TIG welder someone mentioned in another thread?
I had a mate now disceased that built a super single using the same technique with Reynolds? tubing.
If you TIG it do you use a shielding gas
This is an ambitious project and I wish you all the best of luck with it.
Hello dirt rider X, the welding is all done with an oxy acetylene torch. I have heard of persons using a TIG but have never tried it myself, I would think it would be too difficult to do too, as the TIG would have a very localised heating area and the whole purpose of using bronze welding on chrome moly tube is to not overheat the material above its critical temperature. I am surprised at the misconceptions around bronze welding and the perception of weakness. This frame is not tack welded it is welded with phosphor bronze in the interests of construct-ability, safety and strength.

I have crashed my frames before on the speedway track and torn the chrome moly tubing apart and the weld still completely in tack. Again this perception of weakness is not in my experience and wonder where it comes from. I can only imagine from persons not appropriately skilled in the technique of bronze welding having had failures and this being seen as an inappropriate metal joining process. I have crash tested this method of frame building and it works...well, better than any other techniques used before being shown this method. My welding research has been done from a practical sense and proven. Not sure what is being missed here by the doubters of this. Look at all the Wasp frames, most of the pre ali or carbon GP bikes and cars for decades have been built this way. So I would suggest that the surfers do a bit of research of their own. History and any current custom frame builder of any credible note does exactly what you see here.

The proof will be in the pudding so to speak, lets see how it handles the punishment I intend on giving it and, I feel pretty safe in doing it too. There may need to be some changes along the way, but it is only metal...

Javahead, thanks for the feedback on the driveshaft, I have bought a new one so have confidence it should be good for a while. The front end is done that way because I believe that is how it should be done. I cannot achieve what I want with a set of telescopic forks and I can't afford a set of forks that will do what I want. Again I am surprised by the industry sticking with telesopic forks when they really are a poor compromise for suspending the front end of a motorcycle. It is a bit like the internal combustion engine, it really was not the best method of producing power for transportation and yet we have it and nothing else is considered appropriate. I think telescopic forks on a motorcycle are in the same league. Industry has put all its efforts into the development of the telescopic fork and have ingrained themselves into carrying on with their development, just like the internal combustion engine. Look at what you need to spend on a set of forks if you want to race competitively in the WSB >$35K! How much do you think Coma and Cyril pay for their forks? OK Redbull...and they are a compromise. Look at what I need to achieve hopefully a similar or maybe even better result. No complicated steering head with tapered roller bearings and no way, other than making a new frame or other significant expense, to change things like; rake, offset, trail etc for a fraction of the cost, just a lot of head scratching. Mark my words, one day all front ends of motos will be made in a fashion similar to this and people will say, wow there is one of those old telescopic fork front end things....





Cheers
Pilbara
Pilbara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 04:12 PM   #74
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,763

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilbara
The front end is done that way because I believe that is how it should be done. I cannot achieve what I want with a set of telescopic forks and I can't afford a set of forks that will do what I want. Again I am surprised by the industry sticking with telesopic forks when they really are a poor compromise for suspending the front end of a motorcycle.

Industry has put all its efforts into the development of the telescopic fork and have ingrained themselves into carrying on with their development, just like the internal combustion engine. Look at what you need to spend on a set of forks if you want to race competitively in the WSB >$35K! How much do you think Coma and Cyril pay for their forks? OK Redbull...and they are a compromise.

Look at what I need to achieve hopefully a similar or maybe even better result. No complicated steering head with tapered roller bearings and no way, other than making a new frame or other significant expense, to change things like; rake, offset, trail etc for a fraction of the cost, just a lot of head scratching.
I sure agree with you about the forks Kevin. In addition to what you mentioned, I'm surprised that oil damping and metal springs are still in common use for vehicle suspension. (But not really so surprised. If commodity items were designed and manufactured economically it would put 60 or so percent of people out of work.)

Out of curiosity what's the axial load capacity of the 'front strut' Heim joints?


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 08:20 PM   #75
Pilbara OP
In the flow...
 
Pilbara's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: In the f'in city
Oddometer: 1,570
Taking shape



Front at max droop and rear at about 4" compressed position.

The rear swingarm is being built in the same vein = strong I don't want this happening again...


Cheers
Pilbara

Pilbara screwed with this post 06-11-2010 at 08:45 PM
Pilbara is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014