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Old 06-14-2013, 08:32 PM   #586
MotoErik
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Originally Posted by dolomoto View Post
The light beam of a headlight/taillight goes on to infinity and is not dependent on the light producing vehicle for visibility.
Physics is not your friend: http://www.badastronomy.com/mad/1998/light_forever.html

I'm very glad I'm retired, and don't have to deal with that crap any more. Sorry that you do.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:59 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by MotoErik View Post
Physics is not your friend: http://www.badastronomy.com/mad/1998/light_forever.html

I'm very glad I'm retired, and don't have to deal with that crap any more. Sorry that you do.
Thanks for the fact check. What I meant was that a headlight/taillight will be seen at a greater distance than a vest which is dependent on the angle of light hitting it.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:11 PM   #588
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What I meant was ....
That's where we get the"retro" in retroreflective. The reflection bounces back to the source of light. ...in theory. If it works, & if the cager has their lights on,
You shou ld light up like the 4th o July.

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Old 06-14-2013, 11:12 PM   #589
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Regarding vests, the EU is working on a requirement for all motorized two-wheeler operators to wear the things. I do anyway. It will affect insurance, as the vests are right now considered to remove the "I didn't see you" defense - if a rider is wearing a vest, then he is visible. End of discussion.

It's interesting. Mostly, it allows me to wear a nicer-looking grey/black jacket underneath. I can stow the vest when I'm not riding.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:54 AM   #590
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Regarding vests, the EU is working on a requirement for all motorized two-wheeler operators to wear the things. I do anyway. It will affect insurance, as the vests are right now considered to remove the "I didn't see you" defense - if a rider is wearing a vest, then he is visible. End of discussion.

It's interesting. Mostly, it allows me to wear a nicer-looking grey/black jacket underneath. I can stow the vest when I'm not riding.
I'm sure that the safety Nazis at the EU will eventually take away all your liberties in the name of safety. They are just a bunch of beurocrats who need to justify their existence and feel important by controlling other peoples lives.

As for the US military, I once rode on base at Redstone Arsenal wearing a bright yellow jacket and high vis yellowfull face helmet and was told I needed to wear a vest or reflective belt

If I had been wearing a matte black half helmet, camos and a 1 inch wide reflective belt I would have been OK. The stupidity of this should be obvious to the most casual observer but this is what happens when people who don't have a clue make the rules.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:23 AM   #591
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The DODI (which all branches takes their guidance from) reads a rider must wear a brightly colored upper garment during the day, and reflective at night. It used to be the way described above, which is nonsense.

The high viz yellow is the most visible color in the human spectrum, and will appear to "glow" when hit by any light source.

While I understand the point behind the reg, It does get a bit silly and over zealous, and is often times written and enforced by non riders.

The focus needs to shift. Two years ago, almost all Air Force fatalities were single vehicle accidents, involving sport bikes. I haven't checked last years stats, but one of my own riders was killed in a single vehicle accident. Some way, some how, the thought process needs to change with military riders. We are out own worst enemy.

Just this past week I taught a BRC to some folks on base. One girl, whom I wish I could have failed (let's not get hung up on that, I teach by the objectives and keep my personal feelings out of it) proceeded to tell me, as I handed her the card, that she planned to buy and R1 as her first bike. A 125cc Eliminator was almost more than she could handle... WTF?!

I took my rider coach hat off and put my NCO stripes on and told her EXACTLY what I thought of that idea, and just how far from being able to handle that she was. I also called her unit safety rep and squadron chief to talk to them. Do I think it will make a difference? Nope.

These people seem driven to get themselves killed, and no amount to talking or regulations is going to change it.

One of my own firemen, who took MY MSF class, decided to get on a sport bike before he got licensed. He was drunk, in shorts, water shoes, and nothing else. Tried to wheelie at 60+ (his official story was he hit a rock and went into a wobble) dropped the bike down, lost control, and took out two mailboxes (4x4 posts) with his face. While waiting for his court martial, this dumb SOB had the nerve to ask me if I would be upset if he kept riding. My testimony put him in jail....

Some people will just never get it. While a large contingent of us in the military play by the rules and ride smart and safe, there seems to be a group who is determined to get themselves killed. These idiots are the ones who drive the regulations.


****rant off, sorry****
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:54 PM   #592
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The DODI (which all branches takes their guidance from) reads a rider must wear a brightly colored upper garment during the day, and reflective at night. It used to be the way described above, which is nonsense.
......
Some base commanders require more than the above. Redstone arsenal aparently doesn't care if you are wearing a high vis jacket with reflective material. You still have to add a vest or reflective belt.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:02 PM   #593
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True. They can always add to the reg, just not take away.

That's were a strong riding community is really important. I have seen it work wonders.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:11 PM   #594
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Some base commanders require more than the above. Redstone arsenal aparently doesn't care if you are wearing a high vis jacket with reflective material. You still have to add a vest or reflective belt.
The current 3d ID (Benning, Stewart, HAAF, Holly Hill) reg specifies that a reflective, hi-viz vest or jacket will suffice. I am paraphrasing the 6 page policy letter.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:29 PM   #595
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Some base commanders require more than the above. Redstone arsenal aparently doesn't care if you are wearing a high vis jacket with reflective material. You still have to add a vest or reflective belt.
The guards usually don't have a clue. They know, vest, belt, vest belt duhhhhh vest belt. The instruction actually allows for reflective piping and such most have never actually read it.

I used to carry the frigging regs in my back pack to prove it.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:37 PM   #596
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I still carry, and ask all those in my unit to carry, the wing policy letter with them. I also run the 911 center and work directly with the cops, and I am very vocal in helping to train the gate guards what it required and what to look for.

I also won't hesitate to stop an airman, on base or off, who is not complying with the rules.

While I may not like them, failure to follow them puts my rights as a rider in the military at risk.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:49 PM   #597
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....
I also won't hesitate to stop an airman, on base or off, who is not complying with the rules. .
Last year, I was refused entry to HAAF on account of the guard (Wackenhut...since replaced/hired by DoD) interpreting the rules.

I refused to relent. They refused me entry. I asked (demanded?) an MP/DoD cop. 45m later he showed up. Asked me to comply with the made up requirement. I refused and had the current base policy letter on me (always a good idea). Blah, blah, blah. They "let" me on the base (I work there FT) but cautioned me that I should do what the guards say.



IMO, most gate guards are conditioned to see an orange vest...I've been refused entry with a full 'stich RC, FF helmet, full gloves but a non "highly visible" upper garment while a cruiser rider with an orange/black LS shirt, jeans, engineer boots gets waved through.

Perception is key.

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Old 06-16-2013, 04:11 AM   #598
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Originally Posted by dolomoto View Post
The current 3d ID (Benning, Stewart, HAAF, Holly Hill) reg specifies that a reflective, hi-viz vest or jacket will suffice. I am paraphrasing the 6 page policy letter.
I used to ride on to Benning without a vest and the gate guards never said anything. At Redstone I usuelly wear a reflective belt. When I don't, I have it with me. The instruction there is worded in a confusing manner. One time I was wearing the belt and a backpack. I was told there needed to be a belt around the back pack but they didn't stop me from riding on the base.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:56 AM   #599
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I had a mishap (Cager ran over me) when I was in and of course my CO thought it was my fault (even after JAG visit and police report etc etc) and thus put a page 13 entry (they can write whatever they want) into my record. It said that if I was in another accident I would be discharged. That was in '95 when they were just starting with all this crap! I see it has only been increasing. Thanks for serving!! Life is better on the outside. I say this as my current employer forced me to work on Fathers Day. They told me Friday morning and I had a nice weekend away planned with the Family. The BS is everywhere. At least now they pay me a bunch of money when the stick it to me. My advice is do the stupid rules they say while you are serving, knowing that you are preserving freedom for when you get out!
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:17 PM   #600
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Bragg recently killed the reflective belt/vest requirement. This makes me happy. I was getting really sick of catching shit at the gate for not having a reflective belt on while I was wearing a hi-viz suit with a 8" wide reflective stripe around it.

In all honesty though, the reflective belt was a distraction while riding. Sure, it may help other riders see you in low light conditions, but I was always fiddling with it while riding. That can't be good.

I think the military is doing it all wrong. We spend a lot of time making rules to try to keep Soldiers out of accidents; however, we're not doing anything to help them stay safe in an accident. Sorry, but "long sleeve shirt, pants, and gloves" really doesn't define protection in my book. Accidents are going to happen. I'm more concerned about my Soldiers wearing REAL gear than I am about them being reflective.

I'm a living testament to this. I had a get-off in 2011 on my Ural. It was a low-speed single vehicle accident caused by me catching a wicked pothole in a right turn. It sent me flying off the bike. I landed on the vertical upright of a guard rail. The corner of the i-beam slit my suit from pectoral to kidney, around the ribs. It went through the nylon, kevlar, ACU's, and left a small scratch across my ribs. I walked away, and was at work the next day. The gear worked. The command didn't hassle me. It was a realization that I not only need to worry about being seen, but I need to worry about surviving an accident. For some strange reason, my command gets this concept.
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