ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2008, 04:59 PM   #31
neepuk
Such a drag...
 
neepuk's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Redstone, CO
Oddometer: 1,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by strongbad
If the scale(s) are accurate, and the bike is level, the weight measured with a scale under each wheel then added, or a scale under one wheel at a time then added, is accurate. The key thing is that the bike must be level.

Experimental aircraft builders get weight and balance info this way sometimes.
That's what I did.... just used a bathroom scale that sits about 2" off the ground under one tire, put a 2x4 under the other wheel, then switch and add.
__________________
2014 KTM 150/200xc conversion 1993 BMW R100GS Paris Dakar 2001 BMW F650GS Dakar 1971 Yamaha CT-1 2007 Honda CRF150f 1977 Honda CT125 Chopper
neepuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 05:29 PM   #32
Ruffus
Dirty Old Mudder
 
Ruffus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Erie,Ontario
Oddometer: 4,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast55
what numbers did you find on the scale?
My 06 TE 510 with oversized IMS 3.9 gallon gas tank , EE barkbuster & moose hand gaurds, uptite skidplate, dual rim locks, & Buell headlight & windscrean came in at 305 lbs, complete ready to ride with a full tank 3.9 gallons
__________________
We spend our lives chipping away at our ignorance :wisdom by Dakez

Friendship is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you
can feel the true warmth.: wisdom by ??



Reverse Darwinism...he's only alive because he's to stupid to die. : wisdom by AZRamjet

06 Husky TE510
Ruffus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 05:33 PM   #33
Vibr8r
Beastly Adventurer
 
Vibr8r's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Marietta, GA.
Oddometer: 1,930
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr openroad
BMW R1200Gs 581 lbs dry what a pig, its beyond me why they are so popular off road!
From the original post, "1) All weights are wet, ready to ride, with a full gas tank"

The dry weight is much less.

Edit: mcnews.com listed the wet weight of the R1200GS as 530#.

Vibr8r screwed with this post 03-02-2008 at 05:53 PM
Vibr8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 05:53 PM   #34
cbig
Rift- Raft, SCooter Trash
 
cbig's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Oddometer: 876
Some time ago

I weighed my 07 TE610 with dirt bags (empty) and a gallon of gas and it came up to 308 using the bathroom scale at the front + back method. My drz400s was if I remember 306 in the same trim. I'll have to check that again.
__________________
Cbig
cbig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 06:49 PM   #35
potatoho
Cheese and Rice!
 
potatoho's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Sea-level
Oddometer: 4,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castleman
99 LC4e 317 lbs ready to ride and the 04 LC4 625 motard was 321 ready to ride.
I couldn't get my 1999 LC4E to weight less than 343 lbs. It was all up top too. It was a piggy That was 12L full tank, ids2 silencer (-5 lbs), heavy duty tubes (+3 lbs), emig stabilizer & tag bars (+1 lb), rallye pegs, TF rear tire (+2 lbs).
potatoho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 10:43 PM   #36
mcnut
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Bakersfield CA & Sammamish WA
Oddometer: 1,349
VR, I applaud your efforts here but....

I really like your work here (and on the gear spread chart as well), but...... I don't understand the logic of listing and as a result ordering the bikes with a full tank of fuel!!!!!
Given most bike will travel more or less about the same distance on a gallon of gas, why allow gas capacity to enter into the ranking or ordinal? Filling a tank to full capacity is a choice the owner makes. For many, generous fuel capacity is an attribute but the standard you have chosen turns this feature into a liability! Your chart doesn't list fuel capacity making it difficult to back the weight of the fuel out for those wanting to level the playing field.
Wouldn't a wet, ready to ride weight with out fuel paint a more accurate picture?

Even though I don't agree with it's current form this is a very useful collection of data.

MCNut

P.S. I own two 04 KTM EXCs. One with a stock 2.2gal tank and the other with an aftermarket 6.6gal tank. How should these otherwise identical bikes be charted and why? Empty the bikes weight difference is less than 1%, full the difference is over 12%. I believe the 6.6gal bike should only be penalize the additional 1-2lbs of the over-sized tank itself.

mcnut screwed with this post 03-02-2008 at 10:52 PM
mcnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 05:15 AM   #37
montesa_vr OP
Legend in his own mind
 
montesa_vr's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Oddometer: 1,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnut
Wouldn't a wet, ready to ride weight with out fuel paint a more accurate picture?
Absolutely! As you point out, it is perverse to penalize the manufacturers for providing additional gas capacity to a stock motorcycle, when as adventure riders, that's one of the things we are always screaming about.

Unfortunately, weight with a full tank is the only number I can find that is comparable. Various magazines over the years have listed weight three different ways: tank empty, tank full, or weight with half a tank of fuel. Obviously the latter measurement is subjective and lends itself to inconsistent results. The first would be the most fair way to compare, but it is the most rare.

Since my purpose here is to list weights in one place that can be compared, I am stuck with weight with a full tank. I appreciate all the contributions done with bathroom scales, truck scales, etc., and please keep them coming. However, I won't be adding them to the list, since I need to limit that to comparable weights.

Same thing with the weights from Motorcycle Consumer News. It is indeed a helpful resource to have all those weights listed together, but the MCN numbers are consistently lighter than the weights from other sources, and I suspect they are using the half tank of fuel method for determining wet weight.

One of the frustrating things about this project is the reminder that the magazines don't take dual sports very seriously. For example, the KLX250S is one of the more significant additions to the dual sport world in the last few years, yet Cycle World treated it with a one page glossover and no spec sheet at all. The TE610 has been featured in several articles, including comparisons of sorts, but never with an all up weight. I'm hoping that will change as the new models hit the floor this spring. But it's not like the good old days when Art Friedman was editor of Motorcyclist and dual sports were part of every third issue.

Mcnut, I like your idea of listing the fuel capacity. Since dual sports typically hold between 2 and 2.5 gallons, I'll note those that are carrying 3 gallons or more, and readers can do the math if they want to see where a bike might rank with less gasoline.
__________________
Often wrong, but never in doubt.
montesa_vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 06:04 AM   #38
mcinfantry
who... me?
 
mcinfantry's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: outside baton rouge
Oddometer: 436
if your tank holds 1 or 10 gallons why NOT include that in the weight? dont most people fuel up prior to heading offroad? so wouldnt my xyz with 10 gallons need to figure that since not only is the bike heavier its TOP heavier?

or do most people head offroad with only enough fuel to complete the trip?

that would be like having your post of gear ratios NOT include 6th gear. since most people dont run 6th gear in single track.... why not compare only the gears everyone has.

larger tank is MORE range, but its also MORE weight. so it really becomes is the range worth the weight
__________________
preaching personal responsibility since 1991

1942 Dodge WC-53
2008 Husky TE610
mcinfantry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 09:47 AM   #39
mcnut
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Bakersfield CA & Sammamish WA
Oddometer: 1,349
VR, thank you again for your efforts. I attempted this many years ago. Had a commercial electronic load cell scale, built wood ramps to roll the bikes up and maintain level. Hauled the setup to various dealer and weighted bikes I had interest in at the time. Because the the bikes on the showroom floor had varying amounts of gas in them, I was forced to make an adjustment. After much thought I concluded: Wet ready to ride w/o gas was the fairest configuration. I totally agree with not including weights from various unknown sources.

VR, thought you might get a kick out of this, we think allot alike (I own a 74 Rickman powered by a VR). The file was last modified in 2001 and yeah some of the dealers thought I was nuts. And I don't even remember what all the symbols mean any more;

MODEL




GAS




FW




RW




TW




CW




GAS




GW







WEIGHT


































94 ATK 350ES Cross Country




4.2

























{281}




for 605, +2lbs +$700




























[282]




94 ATK 350ES Duel-Sport




4.2

























{286}




for 620, +3lbs +$600































94 ATK 605ES Cross Country




4.2




141




148




289




295




2.0




12.0







283




no lighting































90 Kawasaki KDX200




3.2

























[235]




94 KTM 250 E/XC




3.2




121




128




249




254




1.0




6.0







248




94 KTM 250 Project




3.2




123




130




253




258




0.0




0.0







258




legal, inc. battery































94 KTM LC4 400 E/XC




3.0




139




147




286




292




2.5




15.0







277




for 620 +1lb +$100































94 KTM LC4 400 R/XC




3.0

























[302]




for 620 +1lb +$100































94 Honda XR250L




2.4




124




148




277




282




?




?







282




96 Honda XR250R




2.4

























243 DB 1/96




96 Honda WR250R




2.4

























249




96 Honda XR400R




2.4

























265 DB 1/96




96 Honda XR600R




2.6

























275 DB 1/96




91 Bruce's Project X,




4.8




135




155




290




296




0.0




0.0







296




legal, inc. batt, skid































94 Husaberg 501C







116




123




239




244




0.0




0.0







244




93 Husky 350




2.4




134




147




181




287




1.5




9.0







278




skid plate, hand gards, lights































98 Gas Gas Pampera 320




























200




02 Gas Gas Pampera 250




























199




mcnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 09:50 AM   #40
mcnut
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Bakersfield CA & Sammamish WA
Oddometer: 1,349
Sorry about the size and lousy formatting of my prior post!

MCNut

mcnut screwed with this post 03-03-2008 at 10:20 AM
mcnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 10:03 AM   #41
ShadyRascal
Master of None
 
ShadyRascal's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: the Root, Western Montana
Oddometer: 6,018
I think the best way would be full of all fluids except gas, due to the differing tank capacities.

The factory weight ratings are dubious I believe at best.

I bought a new-from-the-crate Yamaha YFZ450 (atv) recently. Factory weight rating is 350 dry. I took it right to a certified shipping scale, not a drop in the gas tank, and it weighed 372.

Two quarts of oil and a quart of anti-freeze is probably not 22 pounds.

Pisses me off actually, people who are spending 7 grand on a race atv (or anything else) should be provided truthful specs.
ShadyRascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 10:12 AM   #42
mcnut
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Bakersfield CA & Sammamish WA
Oddometer: 1,349
Sometimes taking an augment to an extreme can cast things in a different light

Quote:
if your tank holds 1 or 10 gallons why NOT include that in the weight? dont most people fuel up prior to heading offroad? so wouldnt my xyz with 10 gallons need to figure that since not only is the bike heavier its TOP heavier?
infantry, your point could be taken to an extreme: Some adventure bikes come equipped with hard luggage. As we see in many ride reports ADV riders often choose to take everything but the kitchen sink if they have the room. Should these bikes be fully loaded to maximum GVW because they come equipped to carry more (and the weight is up high)?

I choose to almost never completely fill the 6.6gal tank on my 525EXC.

Quote:
larger tank is MORE range, but its also MORE weight. so it really becomes is the range worth the weight
As originally formatted, VR"s chart didn't contain the info necessary to arrive at an enlightened conclusion to this question. I think he has plans to change that.

By most accounts the DR650 and KLR650 fill a very similar roll in the MC world. Should the KLR be penalized for having the capacity to carry 3 more gallons of gas than the DR and should a bed roll be placed on it's standard (optional on the DR) cargo rack?

MCNut

mcnut screwed with this post 03-03-2008 at 10:37 AM
mcnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 10:19 AM   #43
Jan from Finland
Registered
 
Joined: May 2005
Oddometer: 547
Great thread, if only you could print the weights also in kilos, please.

If you are not afraid of German, you could verify the numbers from here: http://www.motorradonline.de/bikes/k..._bik_start.htm

German Motorrad magazine lists most models sold in Europe between 2003 and 2007 at the page.

At first you have to choose a model year from upper right hand corner “Katalog-Ausgaben”.
Then you click the make (Motorräder) in the middle, choose the model from a list, click red text “Technische Daten”, and you get the specs. The measure weight is mentioned under text “Test in MOTORRAD” Leergewicht vollgetankt kg. Claimed weights are mentioned at first, so make sure you read it from the right place (Test in MOTORRAD).

However, all the weights may not be comparable, because in some cases they include racks and hard cases.
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are ever attacked by lion, your best defense is to shove your arm down
their throat, grabbing the back of their tongue and hope help arrives quickly.
- Pro Travel Tip by Overland Journal
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan from Finland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 10:53 AM   #44
ThatGuyEd
Mud Lover
 
ThatGuyEd's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta Canada
Oddometer: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan from Finland
Great thread, if only you could print the weights also in kilos, please.

If you are not afraid of German, you could verify the numbers from here: http://www.motorradonline.de/bikes/k..._bik_start.htm

German Motorrad magazine lists most models sold in Europe between 2003 and 2007 at the page.

At first you have to choose a model year from upper right hand corner “Katalog-Ausgaben”.
Then you click the make (Motorräder) in the middle, choose the model from a list, click red text “Technische Daten”, and you get the specs. The measure weight is mentioned under text “Test in MOTORRAD” Leergewicht vollgetankt kg. Claimed weights are mentioned at first, so make sure you read it from the right place (Test in MOTORRAD).

However, all the weights may not be comparable, because in some cases they include racks and hard cases.

Pull out the calculator Jan!
2.2 lbs per KG.
Compliments of Canada.
__________________
What I lack in skill, I make up in reckless abandon.
ThatGuyEd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 11:16 AM   #45
mcinfantry
who... me?
 
mcinfantry's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: outside baton rouge
Oddometer: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnut
infantry, your point could be taken to an extreme: Some adventure bikes come equipped with hard luggage. As we see in many ride reports ADV riders often choose to take everything but the kitchen sink if they have the room. Should these bikes be fully loaded to maximum GVW because they come equipped to carry more (and the weight is up high)?

I choose to almost never completely fill the 6.6gal tank on my 525EXC.



As originally formatted, VR"s chart didn't contain the info necessary to arrive at an enlightened conclusion to this question. I think he has plans to change that.

By most accounts the DR650 and KLR650 fill a very similar roll in the MC world. Should the KLR be penalized for having the capacity to carry 3 more gallons of gas than the DR and should a bed roll be placed on it's standard (optional on the DR) cargo rack?

MCNut
well, apples to apples.
if i want to buy a used 2007 husky te610 and there are two, one with a ims 5 gallon and one with a stock tank... thats alot of difference ABOVE center of gravity. id almost like to ride the two just to see how much. i bet its more significant than most of us think.
__________________
preaching personal responsibility since 1991

1942 Dodge WC-53
2008 Husky TE610
mcinfantry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014