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Old 12-17-2009, 03:59 PM   #226
Ridin'nFishin
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Profile pictures and pegs?

All three bikes are very nice bikes. I would like to see a few pictures of a good side profile. I am interested in doing the same. What have you figured out about the peg locations, as you stated it is hard to stand up and when off road you need to stand. Do the peg brackets interchange from the Versys?

Great job on both bikes.

Calvin
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:36 PM   #227
tonymorr OP
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ELKA shock?

Who want's an ELKA shock for their Mutant Ninja or Versys?

I do-I do!

Elka Suspension have agreed to develop a shock for the Versys if there are 10 commited buyers and MotoWorldOnline will do a group buy.



The Ninja and Versys shocks are interchangable but the Versys shock is longer and gives almost an inch more travel. I could just buy the Elka shock for the Ninja and max out the length adjustment but if I'm going to spend the money on a shock I want the extra travel.

I've been chatting with John Ilkiw from Elka and Vlad Plakht from MotoWorld the last couple of days. They seem knowledgeable and eager to make happy customers. From Vlad..... "Because Kawasaki Versys is not on the Elka's availability list it would need to be developed. Turn around time from receiving the order is around 4-6 weeks. It involves Elka engineering doing their development and then putting the shock in the production. Elka is an extremely customer oriented company and is great to work with." "Please also take into consideration that Elka shocks are completely custom built shocks tailored to a rider and they are built for that particular customer only when the order is received."

Stay tuned here for a link to the group buy info.
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Old 12-18-2009, 04:50 AM   #228
jdrocks
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extra rear travel and a better shock would be great, but with the ninja subframe at least, the tire hits the inner fender liner even with the versys shock installed and i'm not sure that the shock is at full compression when it hits. it only hits if you're pushing real hard, but that's the point in changing components.

the versys subframe is a little different, so there might be more room. something to look at.
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Old 12-18-2009, 05:43 AM   #229
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I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I want to know if anyone has thought about shoehorning a Kawasaki twin into a KLR frame...I own a Versys and a KLR and can only imagine how much nicer my KLR would be with a twin in it. Hmmm... sounds like I need to hit the salvage yard.
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Old 12-18-2009, 06:54 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiodualsporter
I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I want to know if anyone has thought about shoehorning a Kawasaki twin into a KLR frame...I own a Versys and a KLR and can only imagine how much nicer my KLR would be with a twin in it. Hmmm... sounds like I need to hit the salvage yard.
It's waaaay overdue for someone to try this. It's been talked about a lot but not tried yet.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:57 AM   #231
tonymorr OP
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Very cool to see all the different ideas. My Mutant worked pretty well for me just the way it was. This was both good and bad. I was having so much fun riding it that it my desire to ride it overpowered my desire to work on it and make it better. This doesn't mean I have stopped thinking about it. Every time I see a "real" adventure bike I study it and soak up the ideas. Here's a summary of my ideas for this winter.......

SUSPENSION: Thanks JD, I'll have to check the clearance issue. I'm hoping the Elka shock will get me where I want to be in the rear. I think I'm going to swap in the Versys swingarm. For the front I'm going to try the INTIMINATORS . Also need a fork brace.

FRAMES: I have considered different frames but keep coming back to the idea that the current frame is already minimal and more importantly it fits the motor. It just seems like I should be able to work with it and get it where I want it to be.

FOOTPEGS: Yes the Versys pegs and mounts will bolt right on. I'm not sure if this will give me as much room as I'd like. I'm going to get the bike inside this weekend and really figure out where I want my feet to be. I have access to CNC machines so I may make whole new brackets.

WHEELS: Tubeless spoked 18/21. I finally have this figured out. Ordering them soon. I'm going to run the Pirelli Scorpion A/T's. They are tubeless in the sizes I need. (KTM 950/990 Adventure)

SKIDPLATE/ENGINE PROTECTION: The oil pan on this motor is pretty small and simple. I'm going to machine a new pan with heavy bosses on it to mount a skidplate. Before you guys give me too much crap, it's not a new idea. Another very popular dual sport bike has a skidplate mounted in this fashion.

I'm going to lunch. I'll post more later.
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Old 12-18-2009, 04:56 PM   #232
jdrocks
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i have to agree with tony. i just don't see the advantages of putting the 650 twin in the KLR frame. the ninja/versys frame is plenty strong as is and i think still works great as the basis for a build. i pounded the heck out of my ninja this season, including a wreck, and nothing broke.

there are all kinds of suspension combos that can be fitted to this frame and some weight can be trimmed, although not as much as you might think. i have a versys swing arm in the shop, and although reported to be stronger than the ninja, it weighs more not less.

the ninja can be built mild to wild and i still think it's one of the best places to start a build. these things run really strong, and with a decent suspension under it you have a 800gs beater at a small fraction of the price.

you could start with a versys, but it's cheaper to start with a ninja and go from there.

big fun factor with these bikes.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:39 PM   #233
FloridaSteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks
you could start with a versys, but it's cheaper to start with a ninja and go from there.
Hey JD this isn't a criticism. I a big fan of your builds but I'm a little unclear what you mean by this. Are you saying that it's cheaper to start with the Ninja and add the suspension from the Versys rather than just start with the Versys? I'm just curious as to what's being compared to what. Thanks Much!
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:01 AM   #234
jdrocks
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i'm saying it's cheaper to start with the ninja because there are so many available and can be found at a very good price if you look hard. i thought i did pretty good on my first ninja, but for the second one i was more patient and looked harder. i got an outstanding deal on a 500 mile bike with a clear title, and that put my starting point at under $2000. you also get the sportbike motor which runs stronger than the detuned versys. if you don't mind starting with a salvage title bike, your starting point would be under $1500. the low initial cost saves you the bucks needed for the rest of the custom suspension and whatever else you want to do. i think a good target for this build would be $3000, although my budget is a little lower than that, exclusive of tires.






if you just want a naked versys, then buy a versys and remove the plastic.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:00 AM   #235
FloridaSteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks
i'm saying it's cheaper to start with the ninja because there are so many available and can be found at a very good price if you look hard. i thought i did pretty good on my first ninja, but for the second one i was more patient and looked harder. i got an outstanding deal on a 500 mile bike with a clear title, and that put my starting point at under $2000. you also get the sportbike motor which runs stronger than the detuned versys. if you don't mind starting with a salvage title bike, your starting point would be under $1500. the low initial cost saves you the bucks needed for the rest of the custom suspension and whatever else you want to do. i think a good target for this build would be $3000, although my budget is a little lower than that, exclusive of tires.

if you just want a naked versys, then buy a versys and remove the plastic.
Gaotcha thanks.
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Old 12-19-2009, 12:07 PM   #236
BENRON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymorr

SKIDPLATE/ENGINE PROTECTION: The oil pan on this motor is pretty small and simple. I'm going to machine a new pan with heavy bosses on it to mount a skidplate. Before you guys give me too much crap, it's not a new idea. Another very popular dual sport bike has a skidplate mounted in this fashion.
Tony- Just some unsolicited advice... How about having the bosses on the side of the new oil pan and having ears on the plate to allow a gap between the oil pan and skid plate? This would give you a bit of a crush zone to absorb energy before the proverbial unmovable object (rock) hits the unstoppable one (oil pan).

Are you thinking about moving the muffler, or putting the skid plate under it or in front of it?
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:24 PM   #237
tonymorr OP
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The group buy has begun. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...highlight=elka

As cheap as $676 shipped for a custom valved remote reservoir shock with compression, rebound, and ride height adjustment.

http://www.elkasuspension.com/?q=node/41

(I have no affiliation with Elka or Moto World Online. I just want a Versys shock for my Mutant Ninja)
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:52 PM   #238
tonymorr OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BENRON
Tony- Just some unsolicited advice... How about having the bosses on the side of the new oil pan and having ears on the plate to allow a gap between the oil pan and skid plate? This would give you a bit of a crush zone to absorb energy before the proverbial unmovable object (rock) hits the unstoppable one (oil pan).

Are you thinking about moving the muffler, or putting the skid plate under it or in front of it?
Thanks Benron, I don't have the oil pan designed yet but I was thinking ears. It wasn't for that reason but it is now ;-) I don't know about the muffler yet. It's heavy but the weight is low and centered. I like that it's quiet. It's sturdy and mounted firmly. I think it could take quite a hit and be fine. If it get's destroyed they are a dime a dozen on Fleabay. I might just run the skidplate right up to it and flush. Possibly some bent tabs that lock into the front edge of it.
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2011 Husaberg FE 390 - 2014 Honda Grom "Napoleon" - 2014 Honda Grom "Lucy"
'07 Mutant Ninja II (sold)click for build report - 2008 Yamaha WR290R (sold-not sure why)
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:49 PM   #239
Ednukey
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Regarding mounting a skidplate to an oil pan, vice a frame or subframe.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=6248

Something like the above is always a possible result. However, if you are doing CNC, you will probably be using some sort of T-level heat-treated extrusion, so you will already be working with material that is stronger than that which comprises the cast pan on the V.

Regarding the addition of "ears" to extend the skidplate beyond pan - the one concern is that if the "ears" are not extrmemely robust they can create a moment where they converge into the pan, resulting in a stress concentration point, which can result in cracking during a hard hit (as is evidenced in the above thread).

From a strength perspective (and design simplicity perspective) it may do well to simply create a pan with very thick walls that have the bosses integrated, then the forces would be distributed throught the entire pan side-wall. Thus, you could design the "ears" into the skidplate itself. Also, welding (4) tabs on a skid plate isn't too hard. I'm a sh!!ty welder, but it would be cake with MIG.

BTW, Tony, great stuff in this thread. I have followed your's and jdrock's work for a while now and find it very inspiring. I have a real appreciation for folks like y'all that think outside the box - and, also, welcome, over on the V forum!
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:07 AM   #240
BENRON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ednukey

Regarding the addition of "ears" to extend the skidplate beyond pan - the one concern is that if the "ears" are not extrmemely robust they can create a moment where they converge into the pan, resulting in a stress concentration point, which can result in cracking during a hard hit (as is evidenced in the above thread).
The point was that the ears WEREN'T going to be robust so as they would 'give' and adsorb energy rather than the oil pan transmitting it to the rest of the bike.

Something I didn't realize-- BMW is apparently using rubber mounts between their GS skid plate and engine?? THIS company is providing an 'upgraded' mount on their version to better dissapate impact energy. (Looks like urethane to me)
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