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Old 08-28-2009, 05:24 AM   #5731
swingset
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah
I guess the other option would be to go the speed limit, and ensure that anyone driving your car does the same.
Did you see where motorcycles were tripping the cameras and getting false high-speed readings, even when they were doing the limit? Seems the sensors can't handle the short wheelbase.

Do you trust Redflex, in Australia.....operating for-profit cameras without any public oversight of calibration or methodology to accurately determine your speed? I don't. What if they get it wrong, how do you prove your innocence? Come to think of it, is that how the law is supposed to work?

Now, back to tagging!! Just please, no tags in Heath.

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Old 08-28-2009, 05:43 AM   #5732
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and the first person to make a heath speed cam the tag gets slapped in the face with a fish.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:50 AM   #5733
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Originally Posted by z@ch
and the first person to make a heath speed cam the tag gets slapped in the face with a fish.
Well, you could do one used-tire-flambéed like the Brits do, that would be acceptable.

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Old 08-28-2009, 07:13 AM   #5734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah
I guess the other option would be to go the speed limit, and ensure that anyone driving your car does the same.
The thing that I find amusing is that the cameras supposedly won't trip for a speeding ticket unless the vehicle is 10 miles over the limit. So this means that people who get tickets are driving >45 mph in a 35 zone (and probably talking on their cell phones while tailgating the vehicle in front).

I'm guessing that most of the speeding tickets come from the camera on 79 by Mathews Ford since the speed limit changes from 55 to 35 shortly before that camera and perhaps south of the mall where there are four lanes and less traffic.

My wife's friends who've gotten tickets are all bleach bottle blonds who talk on their cell phones and drive huge SUVs. I don't feel sorry for them.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:25 AM   #5735
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Originally Posted by Castle
The thing that I find amusing is that the cameras supposedly won't trip for a speeding ticket unless the vehicle is 10 miles over the limit. So this means that people who get tickets are driving >45 mph in a 35 zone (and probably talking on their cell phones while tailgating the vehicle in front).

I'm guessing that most of the speeding tickets come from the camera on 79 by Mathews Ford since the speed limit changes from 55 to 35 shortly before that camera and perhaps south of the mall where there are four lanes and less traffic.

My wife's friends who've gotten tickets are all bleach bottle blonds who talk on their cell phones and drive huge SUVs. I don't feel sorry for them.
Again, do you trust Redflex? How do you know that it's 10 miles over or that the camera is getting it right? How do you know they're getting it right?

They've admitted some vehicles are hard to get accurate. Want to spend your money and days off of work fighting a false ticket because it didn't get your bike right? I don't.

I'll always fall back to this too - was Heath suffering abnormal or elevated incidents of crashes, injury accidents or deaths on SR79? The answer is, of course, no. Was speed or running lights an epidemic there?

Do these cameras make the intersections safer or the traffic patterns work better? Again, no. In fact, it might just be the opposite.

The only studies EVER done that support the cameras are either funded by the IIHS, who directly benefits when you speed, get ticketed or have an accident, or researchers funded by them. Nearly unanimously, every independent study done by policy or university research has shown they do not decrease accidents, or contribute to safer traffic.

In addition, the yellow duration has been shown in many cases to be too short to allow safe stopping under normal traffic conditions and this is made worse in heavy traffic, this has been an issue with the cameras for some time, even the NTSB & Congress were critical of the cameras in their 2001 study for these reasons.

Here's a good collection of some of the studies over the last 15 years:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/04/430.asp

The congressional findings from '01 are good reading too:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/finalreport.pdf

So, why are the cameras there? The Mayor didn't call Redflex and ask for cameras, the for-profit company came knocking and promised increased revenue. Viola.

And, how could anyone argue that a private company enforcing, ticketing, collecting and executing traffic law independent of local law enforcement is a wise thing? So far, to my knowledge, not a single city has kept cameras when it's went to public referendum.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:51 AM   #5736
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You are correct. This was done by Heath purely for the money. Redflex has some notorious history for cameras in Scottsdale, AZ and in California. The most flagrant violation was when a California city shortened the yellow light cycle to increase revenue (technically not Redflex' fault).

I do hope that the Heath residents vote the cameras out. They set a bad, big brother precedent that could spread to many, many more towns. Driving in the UK is annoying because of all the speed cameras, particularly now that they no longer run out of film on weekends (darned digital technology!). I don't want our country to become a land of spy cameras. (Google street view is bad enough!)
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:08 AM   #5737
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So here's the challange to all the bicyclists out there. Get a photo of your bike on Heath city cameras! If Craig is right the short wheel base will mean you don't actually have to be going over 35mph Just put a sign on your back like "slow moving vehicle"
Sounds like there should be a bunch of ghost riders out there.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:57 AM   #5738
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My concerns (without doing the legal research to even try to find an answer) are these:

1) Can I face my accuser in court and subject him or her to questioning?
"Camera, on the 28th day of August were you employed by Heath as a traffic cam? What is your law enforcement training, Camera?"

2) Does the camera submit a photo or video? If it's a photo then it doesn't accurately represent the crime in question- it's just a still shot of my vehicle. These issues provide reasonable doubt to me. And if you can get a jury trial then you'll have hacked off locals on the jury judging you.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:30 PM   #5739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkster
My concerns (without doing the legal research to even try to find an answer) are these:

1) Can I face my accuser in court and subject him or her to questioning?
"Camera, on the 28th day of August were you employed by Heath as a traffic cam? What is your law enforcement training, Camera?"

2) Does the camera submit a photo or video? If it's a photo then it doesn't accurately represent the crime in question- it's just a still shot of my vehicle. These issues provide reasonable doubt to me. And if you can get a jury trial then you'll have hacked off locals on the jury judging you.

I agree!

However, could towns just put up cameras and reduce their police forces? Less paid on Salary and Benefits. Budgets would be helped. More revenue with the cameras everywhere. I'm just saying.......

(Edit: Totally joking on the "officer reduction for increase in cameras"!!)

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Old 08-28-2009, 01:09 PM   #5740
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Originally Posted by EJV
I agree!
However, could towns just put up cameras and reduce their police forces? Less paid on Salary and Benefits. Budgets would be helped. More revenue with the cameras everywhere. I'm just saying.......
Would you want to have a "crime" attributed to you without an eyewitness, an officer to oversee the charge or accusation, and have the burden of guilt for you to disprove? Cause that's what it means to have cameras instead of patrol officers.

Also, and I think Mark & Brandon would agree, traffic stops serve a much wider range of enforcement than red-light stops and 10mph over the limit. An automated camera won't stop a drunk driver, nor will it find a stolen vehicle's thief, a person who is wanted 3 states over for murder, a kidnapping victim in the back seat, or a drug mule.

Officers do not need replaced by for-profit companies, they need to be in sufficient numbers to canvas their jurisdiction, IMHO. I'm not against enforcement, I'm against faux enforcement sold to the public on the guise of public safety, when that's the last thing it's actually about.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:15 PM   #5741
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Originally Posted by swingset
.................. I'm not against enforcement, I'm against faux enforcement sold to the public on the guise of public safety, when that's the last thing it's actually about.
Agreed.


I think "safety" is not a reason for cameras. (Could more Officers have been used instead of numerous cameras? Hmm.)

I ran through Nerk on my GS a month or so back. "Oh, look at the Red Light Cameras. Hmm. They are speed cameras too. Oh, look, I have been speeding (suprise!)". Nothing arrived in the mailbox, yet.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:56 PM   #5742
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In case anyone was wondering


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28732
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:16 PM   #5743
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I feel for ya sometimes, I really do.

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Old 08-28-2009, 07:42 PM   #5744
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How long does a tag have to sit before the poster of said tag can get it?
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:38 PM   #5745
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Tag!

Muskingum County War Memorial.

Holy crap it was raining HARD from Cbus to almost Zanesville (and back). Zanesville was nice and dry! Awesome ride out.



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EJV screwed with this post 08-28-2009 at 09:26 PM
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