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Old 04-07-2008, 07:49 PM   #31
CodyY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VStromTom
Please, post your source if you find the info. My source that the strings don't wick is having taken off several tires with the strings in place and not noticing ANY contamination in/on the string, or inside the tire or on the rim. But, I intend to use the strings and run the tires as long as I can, regardless, based upon my past experience with having done so. Supported by most of the other posts on this thread.
Your source has taken off several tires with strings???

Have you ever seen a tire that has blown out? Ever seen a white chalky substance in the belt package? That's what we call cancer. It's the deterioration of the steel in the tire. This is the strength of the tire. Your string plug is letting water/oil/grime/etc. in the belt package. It may not be leaking air. There is a difference in sealing the leak, and sealing the injury.

https://www.rma.org/newsroom/release.cfm?ID=233

Take a look at these
http://www.patchrubber.com/tire_repa...air/index.html
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:23 PM   #32
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyY
Your source has taken off several tires with strings???

Have you ever seen a tire that has blown out? Ever seen a white chalky substance in the belt package? That's what we call cancer. It's the deterioration of the steel in the tire. This is the strength of the tire. Your string plug is letting water/oil/grime/etc. in the belt package. It may not be leaking air. There is a difference in sealing the leak, and sealing the injury.

https://www.rma.org/newsroom/release.cfm?ID=233

Take a look at these
http://www.patchrubber.com/tire_repa...air/index.html
Sorry man, that is pretty weak stuff, presented by companies with a vested interest in their perspective, and for a profit on the second one.

I see no definitive proof that there is any "wikking", or that the use of string plugs is dangerous in comparrison to other methods.

Jim
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:17 PM   #33
wibby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Sorry man, that is pretty weak stuff, presented by companies with a vested interest in their perspective, and for a profit on the second one.

I see no definitive proof that there is any "wikking", or that the use of string plugs is dangerous in comparrison to other methods.

Jim
It must be true, I read about it on the internet
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Old 04-08-2008, 04:22 AM   #34
svwayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSWayne
The claim that sticky strings could wick anything makes no sense. Wicking requires capillary action and capillary action requires a capillary i.e. a small passage where surface tension can pull a liquid against the force of gravity. If there was a capillary the air would come out. Before it leaked out the surface tension would have to fight against 30 psi pressure, which is also illogical. The only way the sticky string could get junk into a tire is if the outer end was not cut off and the weight of the vehicle forced some of the exposed and dirty string into the tire. This means it was not installed correctly.
Worst case, if the leak is sealed only at the inner surface of the tire, then there is no pressure in the "hole" so capillary action could possibly occur into the area of the tire between the tread and inner surface where the belts reside. However, even in this situation, the fibers/cords of the string type plug would have to provide a capillary structure for moisture/contaminants to wick into. This seems highly improbable to me if the string type plugs have been completely coated/injected/etc. with a non water soluble coating/filler. So yes, I agree that the wicking argument doesn't seem very plausible.

Like many of you I've seen my share of tire repairs over the years. The first 8 years of my working life were spent as an automotive technician working for Goodyear Tire and Rubber. I've patched/plugged numerous tires with no problems. I've removed worn out car tires that had string and patch type repairs that were still functioning. I'll run string type repairs, as long as they are not in the sidewall/edge of the tire, on my cars until the tires wear out. I won't run ANY type of repaired tire on my motorcycle any further than neccesary to get the tire changed out.

P.S. I have seen plenty of tires that failed due to being run with too low pressure but can't think of a single failure from being repaired with string type plugs.
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Sorry man, that is pretty weak stuff, presented by companies with a vested interest in their perspective, and for a profit on the second one.

I see no definitive proof that there is any "wikking", or that the use of string plugs is dangerous in comparrison to other methods.

Jim
True, the second link is from the company I used to work for. It is a series of training videos availible as a reference to the salesforce and customers.

However the first link is to the Rubber Manufacturers Association. A non-profit board of big wigs in the tire business. My Uncle is actually on their advisory board.

Chose to beleive whatever you will, but please realize that string repairs are a temporary fix. Intended to merely get you back to civilization and a location where the tire can be properly repaired.
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:30 AM   #36
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyY
True, the second link is from the company I used to work for. It is a series of training videos availible as a reference to the salesforce and customers.

However the first link is to the Rubber Manufacturers Association. A non-profit board of big wigs in the tire business. My Uncle is actually on their advisory board.

...
"A non-profit board of big wigs in the tire business" That is an oxymoron! They may not make a profit on the board, but every one of them has a vested interest in proving that inexpensive fixes wont work. It sells more tires if a simple repair can be declaired dangerous, and fear can be spread to the ignorant.

Jim

PS Yes, I will believe what makes sense to me.
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:30 AM   #37
R1200R Lover
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StopnGo works

I am gonna have to disagree with folks here that say that stopngo plugs don't work. I ride the r1200r with Conti Road Attacks (Steel belted, for the folks that say it cuts the plugs in half). In a matter of three weeks, I got THREE screws in my back tire and ONE screw in the front, towards the side wall! Then, a bit later I got a FOURTH screw in my back tire. All repaired with stopngo mushroom plugs. All FIRMLY pulled on with pliers to seat them well. I then proceeded to ride more than 1000 miles on these FIVE plugs with no major air loss: I would loose maybe 5 psi every couple of weeks on the back tire, but I was riding as hard as I ever did purposely testing these repairs. Pot holes, ridged steel plates, you name it. I readily took the bike over 100mph on the LIE with no problems, thru sub-zero temperatures and warmer days. No problems. I just switched out my tires last week because I got a slash in the back that I couldn't fix and the front tire already had 11,000 miles on it, so I switched out both.

Lessons:
-StopnGo does work. There might be the occasional failure out there in the wide world, barring the operator fucking up the installation, but my guess is that it is rare.
-DO NOT go on the side lanes near contruction zones in NYC, no matter how late you are running for your meeting; it's like they purposely lay down shapnel to shred tires!

R1200R Lover screwed with this post 04-08-2008 at 10:50 AM
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:05 AM   #38
Tbone
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I've always had good luck with the string type over many thousands of miles on them.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:35 AM   #39
CodyY
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For The Record:

I never said that they don't work. Or even that I've never used them. All I'm saying; is that string plugs are designed to be a temporary repair and should be used as such in the interest of your own safety.

You wear a $600 'stitch, a $600 helmet, a high-vis vest, heated gear, $500 boots, sleep in a $300 tent on a $125 pad, with $1200 worth of custom luggage, all riding on $300 worth of tires. Totally dependant and trusted to a .25 cent peice of rope with some red shit on it.
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:54 PM   #40
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyY
I never said that they don't work. Or even that I've never used them. All I'm saying; is that string plugs are designed to be a temporary repair and should be used as such in the interest of your own safety.

You wear a $600 'stitch, a $600 helmet, a high-vis vest, heated gear, $500 boots, sleep in a $300 tent on a $125 pad, with $1200 worth of custom luggage, all riding on $300 worth of tires. Totally dependant and trusted to a .25 cent peice of rope with some red shit on it.
As opposed to a $1 patch woth $0.10 and installed with $25 worth of labor?

If it works it works, and that arguement about how much you spend on other stuff is just silly.

I pay what I pay for my bike, I would pay $5 each for string plugs, or $10, if I that is what they would cost. What does that have to do with what I paid for my bike, jacket or helmet?

By your logic I should pay $30 a gallon for gas because paying more must mean it is better, right?

Jim

PS I run unleded regular gas, always!

PPS I change my own tires too, and never saw any indication of delamination on a plugged tire.
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:25 PM   #41
Terry
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A while back I got a small hole in a Tourance rear tire, followed a week later by another. I plugged both with the el-cheapo "Monkey Wrench" strings and rode for a month or so on them. A few hundred miles maybe. Both held up fine and didn't leak down at all.
When I changed the tire (did it myself), I looked at the repairs from the inside. Both were still in place pretty well. One of them would not pull out from the inside no matter how hard I pulled. The other came out fairly easily when pulled from the inside.

I would still consider them a "temporary" fix. If I intended to but a few thousand more miles on the tire or ride all day at highway speeds, I might consider taking it off the rim and patching it from the inside. Better yet, I'd probably put on a new tire unless it was like almost brand new and I wasn't "rollin' in dough"...

I'd like to know more about the "improved" version with the raw rubber strings, but the site isn't working.

I do worry about the strength of the steel cords after I have mangled them enough to get the string in. Seems a shame to take a little tiny nail hole that is just barely leaking at all and ream it out into a much larger hole that requires cutting a bunch of the steel belts. Not much of a worry at low speeds, but at higher speeds, I'm kinda counting on the steel belts to hold the tire together...

Someone should come up with a glue or something that could be injected into a small hole that would "melt" the rubber back together and seal the puncture without having to rip the belts apart to put in a big ol' plug or string.

Someone invent that. Just remember I thought of it first...

Terry
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:32 PM   #42
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I will continue to use the string plugs whenever I think they will work, and if not I will do something else to get me where I can decide to do something else. Many of us have ridden thousands of carefree miles with plugged tires. Don't use them if you don't want to Cody, but please, no more lectures about them not working or being unsage. You do your thing, those of us who know they work, will continue doing our thing. Peace Bro!
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:17 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyY
When a tire has an injury (hole) the strength of that area is now gone. Yeah, it's only 30psi inside a tire. But keep in mind that it refers to pounds of force per square inch. Take the interior surface area of the tire, say 50" in circ. and 8" wide.

50 x 8 x 30psi= 12,000 pounds of pressure inside that wheel.
no physics degree for you!
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Old 04-08-2008, 04:35 PM   #44
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[IMG][/IMG]

look at a basic tyre - lets assume the rear of a GS - 150x80-17.

Total diameter on the inside (ie ignoring the thickness of the tread wall, because the internal pressure doesn't act on it), you have about a 17" + 2*4") diameter - ie 25". Since 150mm is about 6", lets just use that.

Looking at half the tyre, you have a total load produced of pressure (P) * projected area. ie 30psi * 25"*6" = 4500lbs.

Ignoring the shear loads through the tyre sidewall (giving rise to reactionary loads R3 and R4), lets just say that all the load is taken by the tyre carcass that supports the tread (R1 and R2). You now have a 2250lb load in the carcass (equal top and bottom as R1=R2).

Take a look at the construction of a tyre (eg http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7094302-0-large.jpg). Michelin say thier tyres have between 2 and 4 plies of radial kevlar and another 2-4 of cross nylon or similar.

Since the plies in the circumferential direction are handling this load, we only analyse them. Lets say there are 100 cords across the ply. A puncture takes out 2 cords per ply.

Thus we have 2ply*(100-2cords per ply) = 196cords to support 2250 lbs. (divide by the cosine of the ply offset if not zero degree belted).

You now have 2250/196 = 11.5lbs per cord. A tiny fraction more than the tyre without damage. Compare this to the breaking strain of nylon fishing line, and it is a pitiful load. Kevlar and steel have much greater tensile stress capability to boot.

Where is this bomb you are talking about? That will only be in compressed gas and elastic strain energy - both of which are pretty negligible at 30psi anyway, and the advantage of a tubeless tyre is that it tends to seal around a puncture object, preventing explosive release of the contents - why the flamboyance of 12,000pounds of pressure? There is only 30 pounds of pressure per square inch of applied area, or 2250 lbs of force in the whole tread wall, but it is distributed across the area of the plies, and so the working stress in the tyre is actually much lower than in the bridge you are driving over, or even the engine mounts and floor beams of the car or bike you are driving.
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:28 PM   #45
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I temporarily fixed my last tire for abot 9,000 miles
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