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Old 09-06-2012, 05:04 PM   #3526
antpatterson
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yea tapped out at 80 in 6th and that's pushing it. I'm going to check the combo that's on right now when I go back outside ina few to get it off my stand and put her up for now.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:33 AM   #3527
Deseret Rider
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re-valved suspension

""Wait until you ride on revalved suspension ""

Would anyone care to share some thoughts on re-valving suspension-----??

I know that's a sacred and secret book---best left to the experts---but I'd welcome comments regarding my present setup which is way stiff for the moderate terrain that I ride ---and I don't ride hard because I'm kind of old---70's.

Here is where I am at Fork Spring 19 &15/16ths long ---1.7 OD and 1.26 Id .20 diameter wire and 31 coils (which I think is stock '08 530 EXC) ---as best I can tell on a bathroom scale three inches of compression yields 99 lbs.

Shim pac-----four large shims under the valve-(these are .003 thick and .944 OD)---followed by a smaller shim(.003 thick and .708 D) followed by a stack of ten identical to the first four. then comes two smaller .865 D shims and then a descending series of 7 shims working down to .371 OD. (all of these shims are .003 thick and I see no ID markings on them. Don't know how to identify them other than measuring their thickness and OD?

I'd welcome comment on how I could make the forks a little more plush-----right now they will rattle the fillings out of my teeth on washboard road . I don't ride the bike enough to justify sending them to a professional suspension tuner----but would still like to improve the suspension if I could do that myself. I'm 220 lbs in riding gear. The bike is an '08 with under 1500 miles.

Comments welcome. thank you-----
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:39 AM   #3528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deseret Rider View Post
I know that's a sacred and secret book---best left to the experts
You just have to know where to look. Join KTMTalk.com and read the posts (stickied posts too!) in the suspension forum.

Also buy RaceTech's suspension bible for about $40. Then start testing. You don't have to go strait to a revalve, I am constantly finding new settings for my suspension, bike geometery and tires that help to make the bike work for different conditions. Sure a revalve would be better but to get the best out of one you need to be able to communicate what you need done and the only way to do that is to learn everything about what your bike can do now and what you don't like about it.

Plus its one more thing to play with when your out riding by yourself and you get bored
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:41 AM   #3529
YetiGS
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Originally Posted by Deseret Rider View Post
I know that's a sacred and secret book----
Luckily, neduro sells it! HERE


Just ordered it myself!
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:08 AM   #3530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by header View Post
You just have to know where to look. Join KTMTalk.com and read the posts (stickied posts too!) in the suspension forum.

Also buy RaceTech's suspension bible for about $40. Then start testing. You don't have to go strait to a revalve, I am constantly finding new settings for my suspension, bike geometery and tires that help to make the bike work for different conditions. Sure a revalve would be better but to get the best out of one you need to be able to communicate what you need done and the only way to do that is to learn everything about what your bike can do now and what you don't like about it.

Plus its one more thing to play with when your out riding by yourself and you get bored
All true,you first have to know what you want out of suspension then figure out what parts do what,theres oil level,spring rate,shim stack,pre load can be played with ft and rear on springs. Oddly enough a softer spring can make a bike ride harsher especially in rocks. The fork/shock rides down in the travel due to soft spring and the valving(shim stack) is getting firmer there so the fork or shock rides harsh. Setting the sag is a big part of the deal,if the rear end is too low it affects the front,front end too low and the bike can handle funny in general. If too much preload is used on a spring to get it right for your weight then the spring is too soft and will make for a harsh ride.

People back the basic compression adjuster out on the shock/fork thinking it will help the bike absorb rocks better,the adjuster mainly does slow speed compression which is more rolling impacts,rocks that make everything go bang need softer high speed compression,some modern shocks have a high speed comp adjuster.
Having the compression adjuster backed all the way out usually makes the bike squat too much and bob and weave around,some firmness is needed for good handling.

But,if a fork/shock is old and tired,fluid looks like soup when it comes out,bushings are shot,then it will never work well.
Sometimes just refreshing the suspension with a rebuild and oil can make a world of difference.
Not all bikes need a re-valve,newer bikes are getting better and better,adjusting intelligently can dial it in perfect if you work at it.

Especially KTM's,they just got the linkless rear to work really nice starting in 08/09/10/11/12/13,better and better. The older the KTM the harsher on sharp impacts at the rear end,and blows through travel quicker. This is mainly what I think, after having a bunch of them.I put an Ohlin's shock on the rear of my 04 300,very smooth with minimal fiddling around.


Just going in and changing shims can be a long process unless your pretty sure what your doing,the guys who are good at it have done it for years and years on many kinds of bikes.

Someone like Ned can explain all this much better,his book sounds like a good one.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #3531
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I'm just curious but is the 450 XCRW and 450 SXF parts interchangeable? They look the same from what I can tell and while I'm trying to get my new sprockets and chain from the same place (rivet links giving trouble) I came across the SXF water pumps and while I plan to get the water pump seal and propeller for my XCRW I was wondering if the SXF water pump upgrades fit as well?
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #3532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post
I finally found Ned's answer in this thread at #2207:
Quote:
Originally Posted by neduro
FWIW, I'm not a fan of any program that has an open pipe to inside my motor, positive pressure or no.

I don't see the problem with the stock routing. Get rid of the buggered EXC carb venting, but the crank/ head vent that goes to the carb, is not a liability IMO, even after having bikes upside down and backwards in every possible crashing configuration. The potential exists to get some negligable amount of oil into the carb, but the reality hasn't presented itself to me yet.
That's what I did. "Lost" the canister and all that extra hosing, but kept the crank and valve cover breathers as stock. I had #3 vented to atmosphere and the carb fitting blocked off for a while but noticed absolutely no difference.

I don't know exactly how many hours I have, maybe 80-ish? But the bike uses/transfers no oil as far as I can tell, even after races. Valves are well within spec, only one side on the exhaust is even close to the tight end of the range.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:29 AM   #3533
cactusone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deseret Rider View Post
""Wait until you ride on revalved suspension ""

Would anyone care to share some thoughts on re-valving suspension-----??

I know that's a sacred and secret book---best left to the experts---but I'd welcome comments regarding my present setup which is way stiff for the moderate terrain that I ride ---and I don't ride hard because I'm kind of old---70's.

Here is where I am at Fork Spring 19 &15/16ths long ---1.7 OD and 1.26 Id .20 diameter wire and 31 coils (which I think is stock '08 530 EXC) ---as best I can tell on a bathroom scale three inches of compression yields 99 lbs.

Shim pac-----four large shims under the valve-(these are .003 thick and .944 OD)---followed by a smaller shim(.003 thick and .708 D) followed by a stack of ten identical to the first four. then comes two smaller .865 D shims and then a descending series of 7 shims working down to .371 OD. (all of these shims are .003 thick and I see no ID markings on them. Don't know how to identify them other than measuring their thickness and OD?

I'd welcome comment on how I could make the forks a little more plush-----right now they will rattle the fillings out of my teeth on washboard road . I don't ride the bike enough to justify sending them to a professional suspension tuner----but would still like to improve the suspension if I could do that myself. I'm 220 lbs in riding gear. The bike is an '08 with under 1500 miles.

Comments welcome. thank you-----

My revalved 08 450 KTM forks:

Base Valve
24.1 x6
22.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
8.25
18.25

Mid. Valve
24.1
24.11 kyb
22.1
20.1
18.1
14.1
11.2 x4
float-1.1mm

Reb
Delta (3)
16.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
12.1
9.5x.2
16x.25

mxtech midvalve spring soft
SKF seals
5wt 120mm
midvalve 1mm bleed hole drilled

Works much better than stock!

Here's Stock valving for comparison:
Base

24 x 0.11 (4)
18 x 0.11
24 x 0.11 (10)
22 x 0.11 (2)
20 x 0.11
18 x 0.11
16 x 0.11
14 x 0.11
12 x 0.11
9.5 x 0.31
18 x 0.26

Mid

24 x 0.11 (4)
22 x 0.11
20 x 0.11
Spring
11 x 0.20 (6)

Float = 0.70mm

Rebound

Delta x 0.11 (4)
12 x 0.11
20 x 0.11
18 x 0.11
16 x 0.11
8.5 x 0.30
8.5 x 0.30
16 x 0.25

cactusone screwed with this post 09-08-2012 at 01:32 AM Reason: added stock valving
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:00 AM   #3534
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What did you have them set it up for? How much do you weigh, riding class, terrain, and sag dimensions?

EDIT: What model bike was that?
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:06 PM   #3535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deseret Rider View Post
I'd welcome comment on how I could make the forks a little more plush-----right now they will rattle the fillings out of my teeth on washboard road.
They shouldn't do that to you, stock. I'd start by checking for stiction- lift the front end and let fall, measure how much slider is showing, then compress and let rise, same measurement.

If the difference is more than ~2mm, that's your problem.

Fork alignment, fresh fork oil, changing oil height, preload... these should be enough to get you started.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:08 PM   #3536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antpatterson View Post
I'm just curious but is the 450 XCRW and 450 SXF parts interchangeable? They look the same from what I can tell and while I'm trying to get my new sprockets and chain from the same place (rivet links giving trouble) I came across the SXF water pumps and while I plan to get the water pump seal and propeller for my XCRW I was wondering if the SXF water pump upgrades fit as well?
Essentially everything on the chassis interchanges, essentially nothing on the motor. 450SXF is a rowdy twin cam 5 speed, 450XCW (or XCRW in 08) is a lazy single cam with a 6 speed. They don't share cases, pistons, jugs, water pumps, or anything else except a few bolts.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:06 PM   #3537
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I may have joined the 530 upgrade club. A friend bought a new 350 EXC on a whim, so I agreed to buy his 2010 530 in the same fashion. Standby, as he feels he should fall in love with the new bike before parting with the old one.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:34 PM   #3538
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I may have joined the 530 upgrade club. A friend bought a new 350 EXC on a whim, so I agreed to buy his 2010 530 in the same fashion. Standby, as he feels he should fall in love with the new bike before parting with the old one.
Hoh,Jeeeze,the 530's are a fun play/race/trail/dual purpose bike.
Mine seemed a little mild with the stock restrictor EPA muffler on it,I rode it that way a while,mellow nice single.
Then I got the jetting a little closer and stuck on an FMF Q4............Bam! Wheelies through 3rd with out revving it at all.
Much better response off idle,sounds healthy with out being too loud. Much Better!
An Akrapovic would be neat but 600.00 is just a little much for me.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:00 AM   #3539
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Hoh,Jeeeze,the 530's are a fun play/race/trail/dual purpose bike.
Mine seemed a little mild with the stock restrictor EPA muffler on it,I rode it that way a while,mellow nice single.
Then I got the jetting a little closer and stuck on an FMF Q4............Bam! Wheelies through 3rd with out revving it at all.
Much better response off idle,sounds healthy with out being too loud. Much Better!
An Akrapovic would be neat but 600.00 is just a little much for me.
It won't be a drastic upgrade coming off a 525, unless the '10 is that much better than an '08 I ride with.



What has me excited is winter. The 530 really shines on the ice, and it is much easier to be fast on. We are going to enter some races this year, after screwing around racing against each over the past winter. It is easier to keep it hooked up, where the 525 wants to break out when gassing it out of corners.

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Old 09-09-2012, 01:27 PM   #3540
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That whole ice racing thing intrigues me to no end,I guess they do endurance races with big TT tracks on frozen lakes?

Id love to try that,I raced flattrack for years so the big flat frozen lake looks like a blast!
Ive heard the 525 makes more power at low end then the 530 starts pulling harder at mid/top,either is plenty fast no matter how you slice it.
Mine was flat off the bottom till the muffler got changed,it responds much better now. Mines a 2011,I decided no FI at this point in time, and zipped out and grabbed the last year with a carb,guys were calling and calling to buy it,I guess I wasnt the only one with that idea.
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