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Old 02-17-2014, 11:52 AM   #5656
dieselcruiserhead
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don't have any shims and never done it before but I'm pretty mechanically inclined. I suppose I have the time at night to figure out shimming possibly... I've replaced seals and oil a few times but that's nothing major...
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:15 PM   #5657
Stobie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead View Post
cool I'll start with that. Crosses my mind that I never actually did sag measurements on this newish bike to me (bought last fall).

I was on .48 before on my old RFS and it was great. Also with 5 weight. But both have custom valving by POs.

Weight was heavier on the old 525 but had a smaller tank so might have been lighter up front. I think .50 will work well. I'll probably start with 7.5 or 10 weight possibly for now and then see what happens..

From there maybe work towards a revalving, but it 's really really close right now (it feels).
I've been told by a couple of tuners, James Siddall of Superplush for one, that heavier oil can cavitate and cause fade; and also affects rebound as much as compression, which may not be good. Just change the springs first and see if that's enough. I would agree with header on the choice of .50 rate, too, based on my own research for myself (6'4", 235# nekkid).

Also, I betcha it gets even more plush on small stuff with the stiffer springs, since you'll be running less preload and/or staying higher in the stroke.
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:29 PM   #5658
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Originally Posted by Stobie View Post

Also, I betcha it gets even more plush on small stuff with the stiffer springs, since you'll be running less preload and/or staying higher in the stroke.
Precisely

-Replace all seals, bearings, bushings, clean, re coat, etc. There can be no unwanted friction
-Find the springs to hold the bike up where you want it and where you want it to end up after a hit
-Revalve to control how fast you want the suspension to get to where the springs will stop it

When you buy a revalve your buying the research of the last one. Otherwise everything is pretty simple. Its getting it to work in everything that makes it tricky.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:16 PM   #5659
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Originally Posted by Rickfenn1 View Post
Bottoming out isn't much of a problem since I've converted to the supermoto setup it's just real harsh on the small stuff to the point where if its a little bumpy in a corner the front will try and wash out (and has). I bought the bike last year with no manual and I'm almost positive the fork oil has never been changed so obviously anything will help at this point. I'll try 120mm.

Will a pin wrench like this one remove the fork cap. I might just buy the socket so I can torque it correctly. Although I've been a mechanic for 10 years so I understand how to tighten aluminum into aluminum. http://www.tormach.com/uploads/image...ner_wrench.jpg
If you have the pin wrench I wouldn't worry about the fork tool.

The trick is to loosen and tighten the cap while the fork is still on the bike.

Loosen the top triple clamp pinch bolts and leave the bottom pinch bolts tight.
Crack the cap loose. Remove the fork and service.

After servicing install the fork leg and torque the lower triple clamp pinch bolts. Torque the fork cap and then torque the upper pinch bolts.

The upper triple clamp pinch's the fork leg cap enough that it will not come loose. I leave my fork caps just snug.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:51 PM   #5660
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Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead View Post
Guys,

Need some tips on building a good, soft, plush suspension for my '10 Six Days.

Weight 240 nakid (big 6'5 guy). Big heavy 4.5 gallon tank. Otherwise, stock...

I'm on .46 springs with 5 weight oil, I think 110mm oil level? Small bump compliance is awesome. I'm just bottoming out and it's dropping a little too much versus my properly setup rear.

I still want small bump compliance but slightly more resistance and/or load carrying up front.

I'm thinking:

.48 or .50 fork springs, and then maybe a 10 weight oil??

Any other suggestions / tips?
Yes, for sure on the fork springs, probably the .50's.

As a bandaid until the springs come try adding more oil. Try 105mm and if that's not enough go to 100mm.

I would stay away from the heavier weight oil on these forks. The valving ports are tiny and increasing the oil weight may kill your small bump performance.

Heavy oil works great on damper rod forks but I believe that 5w is best on the cartridge style.

If you can't achieve what you want with the right fork springs and experimenting with oil heights its time to shuffle shims. That is the stage I am at with my fork.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:56 PM   #5661
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KTM is done!

Well ok, a bike is never "done"

I'll always add to it, but at least it's ready for Moab, Death Valley, Mohave, and Baja. Then Blue Ridge/TAT this summer.

I'm forgetting stuff, but here's whats I recall I've done thus far

stator upgraded, converted to DC rectifier (for heated gear, auxiliary night lighting, fan, etc), radiator thermostat and OEM fan, 6.3 gal acerbis tank, Spot Satellite Locator Gen3, Promoto billet kickstand, "stevewfl" tugger strap, Scott's damper/billet submount, ironman sprockets - 14/49 gear ratio, KTM hardparts skidplate, wired (heated gear, tire pump, USB, GPS, Android), SeatConcepts seat, HDB handguards, mirrors, billet topmount bar with RAM and electrical switches, TM KTM chainguard, grips, headlight upgrade, Giant Loop luggage. I also opened it up and checked valve lash clearances. These silver Excel rims are the "spare" set.












Teressa is trying to turn me into a KTM fan-boi! Some of the Valentine's Day gifts


My usual outtake, the light upfront is ProFoto brand, there is another light hidden behind the bike firing into the wall for the bright contrast in the shots
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:56 PM   #5662
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Originally Posted by Hank.SD View Post
What kind of a bracket arrangement do you have going on for both master cylinders? It looks pretty slick.
I took an old bark buster mount for 7/8th bars, reshaped it a little, and welded a 1 1/8 long section of (old, bent) handle bar to it. I got the initial idea from a thread over on KTMTalk. Works like a charm.



If you need more info I can take better pics.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:34 PM   #5663
Hank.SD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVa Dualsport View Post
I took an old bark buster mount for 7/8th bars, reshaped it a little, and welded a 1 1/8 long section of (old, bent) handle bar to it. I got the initial idea from a thread over on KTMTalk. Works like a charm.



If you need more info I can take better pics.
No, that's perfect thanks. I had a very similar idea using a 7/8" clamp collar, a short arm and another piece of 7/8" tubing.. A little extra real estate for all the crap we end up with on our bars.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:57 PM   #5664
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Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead View Post
.48 or .50 fork springs, and then maybe a 10 weight oil??
I vote heavily against 10 weight oil, it will ruin small bump compliance. Definite loser in my opinion.

Springs- I'm guessing .50 or .52, depending on what tank you run, etc.

As for air gap, you need to think of it as a second spring. The metal spring is a linear curve where for every additional unit of force, you get an additional unit of movement. The air above the oil is a squared function, meaning that for every additional unit of movement, you get a squared unit of resistance to the next movement. So, it is very progressive and an excellent way to manage bottoming (and an excellent way to create midstroke harshness if you get it ramping up too soon).

If it were me, I'd start with more spring rather than less, and more air gap, rather than less. You can add more oil easily, through the air bleed hole, until you manage bottoming.

Two other notes: 1) it's easy to focus on bottoming as a problem, but to my way of thinking, it's better to set a bike up plush, and stay on the throttle through the 95% of trail situations that are choppy, and then slow down or change line for the 5% where you'll bottom, than it is to set a bike up stiff to manage that 5%, and have to deal with deflection and instability through the rest. 2) Do some structured testing. Set up a little track that has consistent obstacles you can hit repeatedly, and then make changes to geometry, clicker position, and even oil height until you understand the effects of the changes you make.

SPAM: I wrote a book about this, and in my admittedly biased opinion, it does a pretty good job of laying out the fundamentals and how to test for improvement.

Only one thing is certain, suspension is complex and difficult to understand, and if you don't take a structured approach, you'll go in circles!
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:05 PM   #5665
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Great pictures of your 530 SteveWFL! That bike is clean! You could eat off it! Check out Trailjammer Designs Case Savers in the vendor thread before all your big trips. Get some protection on that case. Great V-day gifts too. :)
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:07 PM   #5666
dieselcruiserhead
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Has anyone run the 518 kit on their 450? I hydrolocked on Saturday with a river crossing gone bad, checked tonight on why its having trouble holding an idel and looks like I lost my ring seal. Thinking about going up to 518 while I'm at it.. Folks rant and rave about them supposedly, also supposedly revs much faster than the 530s (510cc) with the shorter stroke of the 08+ 450s.. There are times I love the 450 and times I really miss the old super torquey 02 510. Thinking this 518 will be a good compromise, possibly..

dieselcruiserhead screwed with this post 02-17-2014 at 10:20 PM
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:19 PM   #5667
dieselcruiserhead
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thx for the advice, appreciated... It will be the .50 springs and I'll continue with 5 weight. With the .46 right now it is close and super plush. Exactly what you're recommending is what I have been doing. It is just that 5% that is affecting it and it's a little squirrely versus the old bike from a little too much softness up front...



Quote:
Originally Posted by neduro View Post
I vote heavily against 10 weight oil, it will ruin small bump compliance. Definite loser in my opinion.

Springs- I'm guessing .50 or .52, depending on what tank you run, etc.

As for air gap, you need to think of it as a second spring. The metal spring is a linear curve where for every additional unit of force, you get an additional unit of movement. The air above the oil is a squared function, meaning that for every additional unit of movement, you get a squared unit of resistance to the next movement. So, it is very progressive and an excellent way to manage bottoming (and an excellent way to create midstroke harshness if you get it ramping up too soon).

If it were me, I'd start with more spring rather than less, and more air gap, rather than less. You can add more oil easily, through the air bleed hole, until you manage bottoming.

Two other notes: 1) it's easy to focus on bottoming as a problem, but to my way of thinking, it's better to set a bike up plush, and stay on the throttle through the 95% of trail situations that are choppy, and then slow down or change line for the 5% where you'll bottom, than it is to set a bike up stiff to manage that 5%, and have to deal with deflection and instability through the rest. 2) Do some structured testing. Set up a little track that has consistent obstacles you can hit repeatedly, and then make changes to geometry, clicker position, and even oil height until you understand the effects of the changes you make.

SPAM: I wrote a book about this, and in my admittedly biased opinion, it does a pretty good job of laying out the fundamentals and how to test for improvement.

Only one thing is certain, suspension is complex and difficult to understand, and if you don't take a structured approach, you'll go in circles!
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:11 AM   #5668
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there's probably some stuff on it around here someplace, but the fork oil weight/viscosity isn't like it is for SAE oils for engines... 5wt doesn't really mean much, cause the manufacturerererere's... can call it pretty much anything they want... google it and you'll find some tables where the oil is actually tested at temperatures, and then make a decision....

alotta tuners seem to use the Maxima racing 5wt, and it's pretty cheap... I changed from that to the Silkolene 2.5wt RSF fluid, and I liked it, seemed smoother.... i'm too cheap to try the Racetech Super Slick stuff, but I might next time....
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:39 AM   #5669
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My suspension guy told me if you're not bottoming occasionally you're not using all the suspension and it is not set correctly for you. Of course if you merely putter down gravel roads, that's not likely to happen.

And by occasionally I think he means only the most extreme landings/hits, maybe once or twice an outing.

Bungholio screwed with this post 02-18-2014 at 10:38 PM
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:51 AM   #5670
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i'm callin' bullhokkey on that one!... front suspension is about geometry.... you get really soft in front, then do a buncha sand whoops... see what happens...
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