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Old 03-15-2011, 01:56 AM   #20491
Jäger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougZ73 View Post
It is kind of a big issue, since its not just a failure, but one that can strand you, potentially in the middle of nowhere. It also happened on an unusually high number of bikes.
No, it's not happening on "an unusually high number of bikes". That's not even close to being accurate. And, BTW, I did pay attention to this because I live out in "the middle of nowhere" before I even ride out of my driveway.

What's an "unusually high number of bikes" for you? Are you suggesting 10% have bad pumps? 5% maybe? 1%, even?

Looking at the various threads recording the bikes with bad pumps going back to 2008, it is obvious the bikes having this problem are in a narrow manufacturing range: 02-08 to 03-08. One pump failure reported in an '09 model. Most early on in the bike's mileage. Is it safe to assume that, when you make thousands of bikes, some fuel pumps are going to fail anyways, just like other mechanical parts, simply due to the laws of probability?

Getting more specific, eight guys reporting a fuel pump problem on the WR250R forum. Ten on TT. I ain't going to sort back through this thread to see how many here, but many of those are duplicate reports posted on those other forums.

These forums don't represent the universe of WR's out there. But when you have tens of thousands of topic reads over multiple forums dedicated to the bike, and only 18 reports of pump failures (many of which are duplicate reports) - all but one failure apparently falling in a three month range - obsessing over the fuel pump is a bit much, in my opinion. Particularly when we haven't bothered determining how many of those failed pumps were constantly run with the tank down to fumes in hot conditions, etc.

And most particularly when it happens that your bike does not even fall within the range that all those failures occurred.

Now if none of that matters to you and you want to replace a fuel pump that falls outside the range of the failures, fill your boots. It's your wallet, after all, and if it makes you feel better then it is money well spent.

However, it is not a "big issue" because it is not happening to "an unusually high number of bikes". There have been a handful affected in a narrow manufacturing time period, and that is it. You are never going to eliminate the laws of probability, that say SOME fuel pumps are going to fail, no matter what, just as eventually we are going to have other mechanical failures in this or any other make and model of bike.

If your FI fails in the middle of nowhere, you're stuck.

If your coil fails in the middle of nowhere, you're stuck.

As far as that goes, the latest version of the fuel pump on a new off the lot 2011 could fail on you as well. On a cool spring day with less than a thousand miles on the odo. Far, far away from home.

If my bike fell within that range of failures, I would probably nag Yamaha to do a warranty replacement. If I thought I might end up dying if it failed, I might replace it. But I personally wouldn't replace it when my '08 bike falls outside the failure range, has over 10,000 showing on the odo, and hasn't so much as hiccuped yet.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:09 AM   #20492
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Spark Plug

You all doing anything different on the install when you swap to an iridium plug? Just out with the old and in with the new? Seems I read the iridium may be a tad longer, wasn't sure if that made a difference or not. Thanks

Sarah
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:28 AM   #20493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
No, it's not happening on "an unusually high number of bikes". That's not even close to being accurate. And, BTW, I did pay attention to this because I live out in "the middle of nowhere" before I even ride out of my driveway.

What's an "unusually high number of bikes" for you? Are you suggesting 10% have bad pumps? 5% maybe? 1%, even?
First off, I'd venture to guess that the majority of WRR/X owners are not on an internet forum like this, so we don't hear about their problems.

Secondly, when I had trouble getting my bike started, it was a bit unnerving everytime I went to a gas station and had to shut the bike off. I was worried about getting it started again, and I was only 20 miles from home. It would really suck to start having that problem when you are in the middle of a trip. I still say if you have a 2008 or early 2009, I'd try and get the fuel pump replaced if I was headed cross country. Why risk it? It's pretty much the only problem this bike is known for, so why not try and eliminate that problem. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:46 AM   #20494
flatboarder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotMojo? View Post
First off, I'd venture to guess that the majority of WRR/X owners are not on an internet forum like this, so we don't hear about their problems.
Well, we would probably hear of them in case of technical problems. This is the reason that -according to the forums- there seem to be so many technical problems around.

At least for the Eu models I have not heard of only one single fuel pump failing within
the last 2 years. Compared to what I read about other enduro bikes with lots of problems posted in the forums, the WR seems to be simply great. Something I can confirm with my own WR250R, which is a pleasure to ride. Not one problem within the last >10000km.
I even thought about getting another one, but I am not yet ready to sell the Tenere.
Regards, Phil
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:21 AM   #20495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotMojo? View Post
First off, I'd venture to guess that the majority of WRR/X owners are not on an internet forum like this, so we don't hear about their problems.
Many people go to the forums only when they have a problem. It's not scientific but a good clue that there are not many problems when we don't read about it on the forums.

Changing the fuel pump if it's not the real problem will be frustrating since you'll get stuck in the middle of nowhere after spending more than 200$ to prevent that.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:30 AM   #20496
bash3r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trav72 View Post
+2

Great seat, great vendor!!
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:34 AM   #20497
bash3r
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Originally Posted by Crawdaddy View Post
Just added a Store button to CORE Website for T's.....

http://crawdadoffroadevents.com/store

More T's sold = $$ for fuel = more exploration for future CORE rides
Nice Chris! Now you just need organized patty wagons to pick us up and take us out west, then haul our dirty butts back.. hahah!!

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Old 03-15-2011, 01:51 PM   #20498
Jäger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greer View Post
You all doing anything different on the install when you swap to an iridium plug? Just out with the old and in with the new? Seems I read the iridium may be a tad longer, wasn't sure if that made a difference or not. Thanks
Hey there Sarah... saw your question re plug orientation over on the WR250R forum. Curious about that myself.

I intend to switch to a Denso Iridium plug myself next go round. Amazon has them, if nothing else is more convenient. According to Denso's charts, this is their equivalent plug:

NGK(Japan) DENSO
CR9EK U27ETR

I don't know anything about to long, too short, or anything like that. Can always throw a set of verniers on a few plugs in your local NAPA, contact Denso directly, or something like that if unsure.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:17 PM   #20499
Jäger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotMojo? View Post
First off, I'd venture to guess that the majority of WRR/X owners are not on an internet forum like this, so we don't hear about their problems.
So you're saying 30,000 WR owners aren't here, so we don't hear their bikes are running with no fuel pump problems whatsoever? Then how prevalent does that make the dozen fuel pumps reported that DO have problems?

I get what you're saying, that we're a self selecting group so not a statistically valid sample. But I suspect more people come to internet forums BECAUSE they're having a problem, not because their bike is utterly trouble free. Some of the people who posted about fuel pump problems posted about the problem. They didn't post just here - TT, WR250R Forum, motard forums... everywhere. Kinda makes them look like more than one person when they repeat the problem everywhere. After that, that was it, never heard from again. There's an example of people who are only visible when they do have problems.

Quote:
I still say if you have a 2008 or early 2009, I'd try and get the fuel pump replaced if I was headed cross country. Why risk it? It's pretty much the only problem this bike is known for, so why not try and eliminate that problem. Just my opinion.
The bike isn't known for the problem - unless you believe it is ongoing, which I don't. There were a small number of pumps reported failing in a narrow manufacturing period. It's beginning to sound like, ten years from now, people will be talking about the 2021 WR250R and people will be muttering "Ya better change that fuel pump out, dude".

But I agree... if Yamaha will give you a free pump, why not?

And when you have a 2009 and all the pump problems were in that narrow range in 2008, what will your argument be? That the date is close enough? Why not ask for a new pump if you have a 2010 then? That's pretty close as well, and you don't know when that run of pumps ended, exactly.

When - inevitably - one of the 2011s has a fuel pump failure, does that prove the problem is still there and everyone as well as the 2008 owners should go ask for a new pump as well?

How about this: on one of the other forums, a 2008 owner had his original pump - which was working just fine - replaced under warranty with a new pump to prevent problems. A few weeks later, he reported his bike wouldn't start. Surprise - dead fuel pump. Maybe everyone who had a replacement fuel pump should go get those changed as well?

I'd probably ask for a new fuel pump if my bike fell in that narrow range where pump failures occurred. Maybe even fight with Yamaha for a bit to get it. But my bike isn't in that range, it already has lots of miles on it, and I think the laws of probability say that my pump will live to the MTBF as an 09 or 10 will.

If somebody wants to reach in their pocket to buy a new pump just because their bike is an 08 or 09, it's their wallet and their bike. However, the suggestion that people with 08 or 09 bikes had better rush out and replace their fuel pumps one way or another because it's quite likely their fuel pump is going to fail are just ridiculous. If there were dozens and dozens of failures being reported, then you might have a point. But here we are with people forecasting gloom and doom over a rate of occurrences which would have owners of more than a few other bikes here scratching their heads and wondering why we were dropping our guts over it.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:48 PM   #20500
Oh2RideMore
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very few had the issue with pump

Unfortunately I was one of them. Bike would not start after riding somewhere, and tank got hot. Fuel level did not matter. Eventually when pump/bike cooled down it would start again. If this happens to you, wait and hour until bike cools , then ride home. I made do until right before a trip when it would not start. Using the interwebs, I was able to get my dealer to replace under warranty, but they had not heard of the issue.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #20501
kawagumby
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I replaced mine as a precaution (like many others have), a couple of hundred dollars for the replacement plus a spare (old) pump is a cheap worry-killer.

As a matter-of-fact, the replacement pump sounds very different from the original pump, so changes HAVE been made to the original design which, of course, were numerous in quantity in 08.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:02 PM   #20502
SpokePlanter
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Another fuel pump failure

I purchased a used 2008 model last fall with 190 miles on it, and a bad fuel pump. 2/08 build date, it also would run fine till it got hot, but would restart after cooling down.
It quit on my first ride and took about three hours to restart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=949P9Ytvu9w

Also, at first I thought the clutch pull was so light that there must be something wrong with it, but is still working fine. Love this bike!
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:12 PM   #20503
R_Lefebvre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawagumby View Post
R_Lefebvre,

I've never known a dealership to set sag - that's because it is specific to the rider. However it is set from the factory is what it usually is, and I'm betting since it is designed to carry a passenger, the preload is set too much for most single riders.

The first time I rode my WRR hard off road I was nearly pitched off the thing, right over the front - I made the mistake of not checking the sag (being lazy). Frankly I have never owned a bike with such a bizarre factory suspension setup. Hell, on the street it was fine! Duh, rookie error by an experienced rider. To complicate the rear kicking up, the shock rebound is only about half of what you normally find on an off-road bike - that's why mine is set to full rebound now and it still isn't enough for smooth sailing on downhill roughs...lol.

Some people think the WRR/X series is set up right from the factory for off-road, but that isn't the case at all, based on mine and many others experience - it takes a little tinkering, but once done, it's a pretty good bike overall without suspension mods.
Ok, so I checked the sag. With the rear at FULL extension, measured 25.5", standing up straight without me on it, 24", and then with me on it, 21 3/4". Is the measurement done from full extension (lift the rear up), or free height with just the bike's weight?
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:35 PM   #20504
Jäger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh2RideMore View Post
I was able to get my dealer to replace under warranty, but they had not heard of the issue.
That's a pretty common story if you visit the stickied fuel pump threads on this issue. Think about that for a moment.

The dealer had never heard of the issue. In fact, I'm trying to think of a post reporting a fuel pump problem where the poster says their dealer went "Oh yeah, the fuel pump thing..."

Which means one of two things:

1. The dealers are rotten bastards trying to help Yamaha cheat you out of a righteous warranty claim for a frequent and known problem with the bike.

2. The bad fuel pumps in WR's was so intermittent that the dealers selling them and servicing them hadn't either seen the problem nor heard of it through the dealer grapevine.

I choose to believe most dealers and their mechanics are pretty good guys trying to make a living - enough of them are members in our forums that I'm not going to be swayed from that. In fact, I dropped by the local dealer today to see what new goodies he might have, a good guy who has been here decades and is well respected locally. Having been reading this thread earlier in the day, I asked him about the WR fuel pump problem. His response was "Huh?".

That leaves option 2, which means it took the Internet for a relatively few pump failures (and I appreciate that is small comfort if you were one of the few unlucky ones) to be complained about and recognized as a group of failures with identical symptoms that were greater in number than statistical probability.

The bottom line is that this isn't a serious problem in scope, and it isn't an ongoing problem. I don't know what percentage of bikes in the affected date range have died, but it isn't like it is 50%, 25%, 10%, etc. When the only bike out there was an '08 model or very early '09, those were the only bikes we were talking about. And very, very few people reported the fuel pump problem. It's a problem limited to a small population of bikes manufactured in a specific range, and that's it.

If somebody feels the need to purchase a pump for an '08, '09, '10 whose manufacture date falls outside that range, I'm not saying they're wrong. Their ride, their wallet, their choice. We all see risk differently - which is why I bet many of those replacing their pump just to be safe don't carry a couple of Israeli battle dressings for soaker/tourniquets on a ride along with some esmarch, a couple of aspirin, benedryl, and a face mask like I do. They most likely see the probability of them needing those emergency supplies very unlikely. Meanwhile, I'm not going to bother replacing the pump in my '08, but I'm not heading out riding without those basic, serious FA supplies. And I'm also not going to say you're not managing risk well if you don't address that possibility like I do, even if you did, however, choose to replace your fuel pump.

The neat thing about motorcycling and wandering the more remote parts of the globe is you truly do live with the outcome of the decisions you made.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:48 PM   #20505
kawagumby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre View Post
Ok, so I checked the sag. With the rear at FULL extension, measured 25.5", standing up straight without me on it, 24", and then with me on it, 21 3/4". Is the measurement done from full extension (lift the rear up), or free height with just the bike's weight?
Full extension...so you have 3.75 " sag. Be sure to sit back a little further on the seat if you aren't wearing boots, helmet...to simulate the extra weight you normally would have with them when riding. I also bounce around a bit to make sure I'm getting the maximum reading. I've had my best suspension action (off-road) with a little more than 4" sag. Even with an unmodified rear shock, my bike works reasonably well on rough trails.
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