ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-04-2013, 09:55 AM   #33556
jon_l
Beastly Adventurer
 
jon_l's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Collingwood, Ontario
Oddometer: 2,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by KansasBob View Post
Going 14 on the front helps slow the wear on the swing arm seal guard.
I have read everything I can find on the issue, and have not read a conclusion that the front sprocket is the cause. I can see how moving the chain away would be comforting, as it is logical.

I thought the general consensus is that the problem is likely caused by an improperly tensioned or kinked chain.

There are folks running a 12T front without swingarm damage, and folks running 13 and 14 fronts with swingarm damage.
__________________
'09 Honda CBF1000; '09 Yamaha WR250R
jon_l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:59 AM   #33557
jon_l
Beastly Adventurer
 
jon_l's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Collingwood, Ontario
Oddometer: 2,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonrider3889 View Post
How much slack should there be? Any rule of thumb on how to tell?
__________________
'09 Honda CBF1000; '09 Yamaha WR250R
jon_l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 11:56 AM   #33558
HardWorkingDog
Harvey Mushman
 
HardWorkingDog's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Walnut Crick, Cal.
Oddometer: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonrider3889 View Post
I am dead serious...


OK, first rule is nobody on the thread knows what they're talking about, including me. You've got to figure what works best for you.

The whole chain tension thing is getting blown out of proportion. I've just read a ride report where a rider ate up his swingarm on a XR650L, it happens on KX450's, CRF's--it's just a product of poor maintenance. So, don't worry.

Then, Yamaha hasn't helped things either, by first using a force specification instead of length (yeah, it's more accurate but who's got a tension gauge???) and THEN issuing a revised spec THAT HAS A WRONG CONVERSION UNIT.

The bulletin quoted above states "36 lbf"--the unit is a kind of obscure measurement of force called pound-force and the number is wrong. It should be "11 pounds-force" as the Owners Manual states:
3. Push on the drivechain at the center point between the chain tensioner and the chain support mounting bolt with a force of 50 N (5.0 kgf, 11 lbf).
50 N = 5.0 kg-force = 11.2 pound-force

Have no clue where 36 came from in that bulletin, but it should be considered a typographic error.

(To confuse things even more, my 2010 Service Manual states "with a force of 50 N (5.0 kgf, 36 lbf)." Do the conversions yourself and see what you come up with.)

You can find a tension gauge here, or just push down on a bathroom scale to get a feel for 11 pounds-force on your fingers, then go out to your WRR, put it in neutral, on its sidestand, and push up on the lower chain at the center point between chain roller and chain support and make sure there's a half inch of clearance. If less, move the axle forward, if more move the axle rearward.

Keep an eye on the seal guard--you'll probably have to remove the front sprocket cover to see in there--and make sure the guard hasn't worn through.

Too loose can be a problem as can too tight. Kinked chain can be a problem as well. If you see links kinked, replace the chain. Lube it regularly, keep the tension adjusted as above, and ride like mad.

__________________
"Coffee first..."

Next Trip: Divide & Conquer...


"it's a dog's life.............and I love it"
HardWorkingDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 12:51 PM   #33559
SchizzMan
pronounced `skiz-man
 
SchizzMan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, Tx.
Oddometer: 7,639
WRR noob

Just got this '09 home yesterday. Needs the engine mods and possibly regearing. Ran good down the highway home.
__________________
'14 R1200GSA "Der WasserNoggin", '14 KTM 350 XCF-W (plated)

"As long as there's a horizon and I can see it, then I want to know what's there, mentally, physically and visually" - rtwpaul
SchizzMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:05 PM   #33560
Luke308
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Luke308's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Oddometer: 425
Nice looking WRR! I really dig the look of the Safari tanks.
__________________

Luke308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:15 PM   #33561
viper770
Studly Adventurer
 
viper770's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Kansas The land of oz
Oddometer: 568
that is very sexy
__________________
2012 YAMAHA WR250R
2013 KAWASAKI KLR650
"Take the long way home"
MY SPOT LOCATION http://share.findmespot.com/shared/f...vi71zS820h7TbU
viper770 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 02:34 PM   #33562
burtonrider3889
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond, VA
Oddometer: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardWorkingDog View Post


OK, first rule is nobody on the thread knows what they're talking about, including me. You've got to figure what works best for you.

The whole chain tension thing is getting blown out of proportion. I've just read a ride report where a rider ate up his swingarm on a XR650L, it happens on KX450's, CRF's--it's just a product of poor maintenance. So, don't worry.

Then, Yamaha hasn't helped things either, by first using a force specification instead of length (yeah, it's more accurate but who's got a tension gauge???) and THEN issuing a revised spec THAT HAS A WRONG CONVERSION UNIT.

The bulletin quoted above states "36 lbf"--the unit is a kind of obscure measurement of force called pound-force and the number is wrong. It should be "11 pounds-force" as the Owners Manual states:
3. Push on the drivechain at the center point between the chain tensioner and the chain support mounting bolt with a force of 50 N (5.0 kgf, 11 lbf).
50 N = 5.0 kg-force = 11.2 pound-force

Have no clue where 36 came from in that bulletin, but it should be considered a typographic error.

(To confuse things even more, my 2010 Service Manual states "with a force of 50 N (5.0 kgf, 36 lbf)." Do the conversions yourself and see what you come up with.)

You can find a tension gauge here, or just push down on a bathroom scale to get a feel for 11 pounds-force on your fingers, then go out to your WRR, put it in neutral, on its sidestand, and push up on the lower chain at the center point between chain roller and chain support and make sure there's a half inch of clearance. If less, move the axle forward, if more move the axle rearward.

Keep an eye on the seal guard--you'll probably have to remove the front sprocket cover to see in there--and make sure the guard hasn't worn through.

Too loose can be a problem as can too tight. Kinked chain can be a problem as well. If you see links kinked, replace the chain. Lube it regularly, keep the tension adjusted as above, and ride like mad.

Thanks, this helps tremendously. Unfortunately I will ask such stupid questions until I get the basics down. I try and do all my own maintenance, but it's amazing how something so simple you do on another vehicle suddenly becomes complicated once you're performing it on a new toy. This is my 4th motorcycle, and I still have chain questions. Or suspension questions even though I have fully adjustable suspension on my car that I tinker with for Auto-x all summer long. Good thing we have places like this.
__________________
2012 WR250R
2007 SV650 (SOLD)
1984 XL350R (SOLD)
2002 CR80R (SOLD)
burtonrider3889 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #33563
bogboy
Adventurer
 
bogboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Westford, Ma.
Oddometer: 57
After all this talk about chains, wear and head bearings I spent the weekend looking at all this stuff. I have a 2012 with 2000 miles bought new. The chain seal guard has very little wear and the bearings were loaded with grease. I don't know if they do this at the factory or dealership but they didn't skimp on the grease. I also keep my chain a bit looser and haven't changed sprockets
bogboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 03:29 PM   #33564
TwilightZone
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Oddometer: 2,694
Chain adjustment changes with different sprocket sizes, or even the chain length (wheebase) on the bike.

If you want to adjust the chain properly? Have a buddy sit on the bike and/or strap the back end down so the swingarm is 'level' with the ground. (Translation: horizontially in line with the countershaft sprocket) That's the tightest point on the swingarm/chain system.

Adjust the chain so there is just a tiny amount of slack in that position. You can wiggle the chain up and down maybe 3/8" inch. That's the proper chain adjustment. (Note: Keep the sprockets aligned too.)

Note that the slack in the chain will change as you tighten the axle nut. May take a bit of experimentation to get the chain tension right.
(I re-did mine a half dozen times to get it right.)

IMHO: Chain guard wear.

Primary spot for chain guard wear is right after the CS sprocket, on the lower side, and right around the swing arm bushing. I believe this comes primarily from wear due to overloading the bike. With the swingarm up... that position comes into play. Increasing CS sprocket size moves the chain away from the swingarm bushing.

I'm a heavy-assed rider (260 lbs) and the rear end of the bike sits low enough... when I loaded luggage on the bike, the chain guard wore out in 1800 miles (Baja).

That's with a brand new chain, chain guard, and 13x47 sprockets.

When I came back, I went to 14x50 sprockets and the chain guard is not worn after 10,000 miles including some luggage trips too.
I suspect that if I lost 80 lbs... the 13 tooth would be alright.

Get the Sandman chain protector/case guard.

The stock countershaft sprocket cover won't allow you to see the wear area that you'll be worried about.
__________________
"I don't really know, I've been too busy falling down."
TwilightZone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:09 PM   #33565
OLEARY
Enlightened Voyager
 
OLEARY's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Rogers, AR
Oddometer: 2,309
That is the best advice I have heard yet. A buddy of mine, 10Cup, showed me when I first started riding the WR to just lean over the bike from the right side, put your full weight on the seat with your midsection, while you reach down and lift the chain from the top. With about the 3/8" slack as you stated, you are good to go. Piece of cake!
__________________
Yamaha WR250R, KTM 450EXC
Moab Ride 10
Trails of the West Lite 2011
Colorado/Moab 2012
Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.
OLEARY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #33566
adaycj
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Oddometer: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardWorkingDog View Post


OK, first rule is nobody on the thread knows what they're talking about, including me. You've got to figure what works best for you.

The whole chain tension thing is getting blown out of proportion. I've just read a ride report where a rider ate up his swingarm on a XR650L, it happens on KX450's, CRF's--it's just a product of poor maintenance. So, don't worry.

Then, Yamaha hasn't helped things either, by first using a force specification instead of length (yeah, it's more accurate but who's got a tension gauge???) and THEN issuing a revised spec THAT HAS A WRONG CONVERSION UNIT.

The bulletin quoted above states "36 lbf"--the unit is a kind of obscure measurement of force called pound-force and the number is wrong. It should be "11 pounds-force" as the Owners Manual states:
3. Push on the drivechain at the center point between the chain tensioner and the chain support mounting bolt with a force of 50 N (5.0 kgf, 11 lbf).
50 N = 5.0 kg-force = 11.2 pound-force

Have no clue where 36 came from in that bulletin, but it should be considered a typographic error.

(To confuse things even more, my 2010 Service Manual states "with a force of 50 N (5.0 kgf, 36 lbf)." Do the conversions yourself and see what you come up with.)

You can find a tension gauge here, or just push down on a bathroom scale to get a feel for 11 pounds-force on your fingers, then go out to your WRR, put it in neutral, on its sidestand, and push up on the lower chain at the center point between chain roller and chain support and make sure there's a half inch of clearance. If less, move the axle forward, if more move the axle rearward.

Keep an eye on the seal guard--you'll probably have to remove the front sprocket cover to see in there--and make sure the guard hasn't worn through.

Too loose can be a problem as can too tight. Kinked chain can be a problem as well. If you see links kinked, replace the chain. Lube it regularly, keep the tension adjusted as above, and ride like mad.

I agree.
And to make matters worse, none of that junk in the manual will get the best adjustment. If wear on the slider is really all the big deal it is made out to be, getting the chain as tight as possible without damage or undue wear should be the goal. I will never believe for a minute that any of the excessive slider wear is from an excessively tight chain, unless the tightness caused chain failure that cause it to become loose.

The single best method is to remove the shock linkage and find the tightest point of the chain in the travel. At that point adjust the chain to close to (but not quite entirely) no slack.

Since I am like most people and I don't want to pull linkage parts on a stand for every adjustment, I made a gauge that replicates the "almost no slack at the tightest point" with the swingarm fully extended. That point is repeatable. The manufactures insistance in force tools on sidestands is just turds on a pile of ... Well you know what I mean

Just like on my KLX250 my WRR sliders look like they might last the life of the machine for me.
adaycj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 06:54 PM   #33567
Daamud
AAAAAYYY!
 
Daamud's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: In the 715, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
Oddometer: 2,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
......The single best method is to remove the shock linkage and find the tightest point of the chain in the travel.
.

Done this. And it IS when the sprocket centers and swingarm pivot are all inline.

And the amount of slack at ride height DOES change with different sprockets.
__________________
WARNING: Most things posted above contain sarcasm.
Daamud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:51 PM   #33568
Scott_PDX
Leisure Engineer
 
Scott_PDX's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Portland...the newer one on the left side.
Oddometer: 2,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightZone View Post
Chain adjustment changes with different sprocket sizes, or even the chain length (wheebase) on the bike.

If you want to adjust the chain properly? Have a buddy sit on the bike and/or strap the back end down so the swingarm is 'level' with the ground. (Translation: horizontially in line with the countershaft sprocket) That's the tightest point on the swingarm/chain system.

Adjust the chain so there is just a tiny amount of slack in that position. You can wiggle the chain up and down maybe 3/8" inch. That's the proper chain adjustment. (Note: Keep the sprockets aligned too.)

Note that the slack in the chain will change as you tighten the axle nut. May take a bit of experimentation to get the chain tension right.
(I re-did mine a half dozen times to get it right.)

IMHO: Chain guard wear.

Primary spot for chain guard wear is right after the CS sprocket, on the lower side, and right around the swing arm bushing. I believe this comes primarily from wear due to overloading the bike. With the swingarm up... that position comes into play. Increasing CS sprocket size moves the chain away from the swingarm bushing.

I'm a heavy-assed rider (260 lbs) and the rear end of the bike sits low enough... when I loaded luggage on the bike, the chain guard wore out in 1800 miles (Baja).

That's with a brand new chain, chain guard, and 13x47 sprockets.

When I came back, I went to 14x50 sprockets and the chain guard is not worn after 10,000 miles including some luggage trips too.
I suspect that if I lost 80 lbs... the 13 tooth would be alright.

Get the Sandman chain protector/case guard.

The stock countershaft sprocket cover won't allow you to see the wear area that you'll be worried about.
Two comments:
- Did you adjust your pre-load? I'm a big guy also and had to turn the Pre-Load up quite a bit to get the right sag numbers. Much more and a heavier spring should be used.
- The difference in diameter between the 13 and the 14, looked like about a 16th of an inch when I compared the two ounter- sprokets side by side. That chain seal is like 3/8" thick. Wearing through the seal and beginning to score your swing-arm isn't going to be fixed that much by changing counter-sprokets.

Proper slack and regular chain maintenance and replacement are the main things I'm doing. Mine seems about right when I can just kiss one finger between the swingarm and chain while on the sidestand. I think I'm gonna try attaching some delrin to the seal and see if that will slow down the wear.
__________________
2011 WR250R, 2009 KLR650, 2004 KTM 450 EXC, 2000 R1150GS

My MotovLog (Youtube Videos): http://www.youtube.com/user/scottb572/videos

Where Am I via SPOT (Code SCT): http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719703

Scott_PDX screwed with this post 03-04-2013 at 09:57 PM
Scott_PDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:55 AM   #33569
cjbiker
Nobody's Robot
 
cjbiker's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Southern Maine
Oddometer: 2,359
Now that we've solved the chain adjustment mystery (again ), how about a new old question?

What's the scoop on the DRC footpegs that Wheeling sells? Is the YZ/WR model the right one? And I'll need the YZ/WR springs? Is there still an issue with the right footpeg hitting the brake pedal when it folds? If so, are the IMS WRR pegs any better? I'm not spending over a $100 for footpegs, so don't suggest the Fastway or other $$$ pegs, please. I got some pegs off eBay for my KLX for under $20 and they were fantastic. Has anyone used the YZ/WR cheapies from eBay on a WRR with success?
cjbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 06:20 AM   #33570
sturgeon
Studly Adventurer
 
sturgeon's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Great White North
Oddometer: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
Now that we've solved the chain adjustment mystery (again ), how about a new old question?

What's the scoop on the DRC footpegs that Wheeling sells? Is the YZ/WR model the right one? And I'll need the YZ/WR springs? Is there still an issue with the right footpeg hitting the brake pedal when it folds? If so, are the IMS WRR pegs any better? I'm not spending over a $100 for footpegs, so don't suggest the Fastway or other $$$ pegs, please. I got some pegs off eBay for my KLX for under $20 and they were fantastic. Has anyone used the YZ/WR cheapies from eBay on a WRR with success?
No idea about your other questions, but yes, you need a spring in addition to the peg. And yes, the DRCs that I have hit the brake pedal right at the bolt, but only after they've been folded way back. There's an obvious ding in the pedal from contact, but nothing that impairs functionality in any way. I've never worried about it.
__________________
Dyslexics Untie!
sturgeon is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014