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Old 04-07-2008, 05:11 PM   #1
rosscoact OP
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Oztopo V2 is crap

Well, i've had it for a couple of weeks and the first thing I noticed is that you have to be at 3k scale in Mapsource before any tracks will come up, major or otherwise. This needs to be noted that even out in the sticks where there is no other tracks for miles. This means that you cannot view at a distance that is suitable for you to plan a trip. The free shonky an T4A are much better, hell even CN6 is better.

Second thing is that the two freebies mentioned above have more tracks on them than OT2. This isn't in the boonies, this is near Nimmitbel in NSW where major firetrails just stop in the middle of nowhere.

Third thing is I have just installed it according to the instructions and i cannot get the contours to show on the same page as the maps. Even Shonky can do that.

So all in all, save your $229 or piss it up against the wall instead of flushing it down the toilet by buying Oztopo. Get the freebies instead.

Anybody want to buy a wonderful piece of good for absolutely bothing mapping software?

rossco
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:28 PM   #2
Frank Warner
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Try returning it ...

CN2008 is not good either in displaying the smaller stuff ...

Oh .. it is not software .. but data.


The mapmaker (author) can do lots of things ... the easiest way is to have a general 'rule' eg that all walking tracks apear under 2 km, all 4WD tracks appear to 3km etc ..

The problem is identifying 'major unpaved raods' as compared to minor unpaved roads .. T4A ignores the 'unpaved' and takes some 'unpaved' as 'other highways', 'collector raods' etc .. this makes it easy for us to use .. and distinguishes the importance of various roads .. we recognise that some of these are unpaved and are use to that.

The hard way is to distingish which unpaved roads should go up to what level - .. does not help when you are zoomed in .. but aids planing ..

The real solution ? Well I think 'we' need what some paper map makers have done - dashed lines indicate unpaved .. that way 'we' can have highways, clooector, arterial, residential etc roads as either paved or unpaved... don't hoile your breath for Garmin to do this .. they don't have railway stations yet..

I'm strugging with Wanderlust maps at the moment - the intention is to make these usuable for OS travellers coming here .. difficult! One further thing is the auto genreation of cities/towns/settlements .. some of them - particularly in the outback are homesteads .. the closest thing existing on the GPS is 'house' .. does not quite convey the message .. but probnably better than leaving is as a settlement?

------------------------
I know one person who is happy with OZTOPO .. but he is a bushwalker .. has T4A. Though it had two versions - one with topo and one without .. maybe it has 3 ? - A) one with, B) one without and C) one as a topo overlay .. humm then planing on the PC would be done with A), but you 'd have B and C on the GPS .. so you could turn off the topo lines if you found them confusing ..

Frank Warner screwed with this post 04-07-2008 at 08:33 PM
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Old 04-07-2008, 11:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner
Try returning it ...

CN2008 is not good either in displaying the smaller stuff ...

Oh .. it is not software .. but data.


The mapmaker (author) can do lots of things ... the easiest way is to have a general 'rule' eg that all walking tracks apear under 2 km, all 4WD tracks appear to 3km etc ..

The problem is identifying 'major unpaved raods' as compared to minor unpaved roads .. T4A ignores the 'unpaved' and takes some 'unpaved' as 'other highways', 'collector raods' etc .. this makes it easy for us to use .. and distinguishes the importance of various roads .. we recognise that some of these are unpaved and are use to that.

The hard way is to distingish which unpaved roads should go up to what level - .. does not help when you are zoomed in .. but aids planing ..

The real solution ? Well I think 'we' need what some paper map makers have done - dashed lines indicate unpaved .. that way 'we' can have highways, clooector, arterial, residential etc roads as either paved or unpaved... don't hoile your breath for Garmin to do this .. they don't have railway stations yet..

I'm strugging with Wanderlust maps at the moment - the intention is to make these usuable for OS travellers coming here .. difficult! One further thing is the auto genreation of cities/towns/settlements .. some of them - particularly in the outback are homesteads .. the closest thing existing on the GPS is 'house' .. does not quite convey the message .. but probnably better than leaving is as a settlement?

------------------------
I know one person who is happy with OZTOPO .. but he is a bushwalker .. has T4A. Though it had two versions - one with topo and one without .. maybe it has 3 ? - A) one with, B) one without and C) one as a topo overlay .. humm then planing on the PC would be done with A), but you 'd have B and C on the GPS .. so you could turn off the topo lines if you found them confusing ..
Thanks Frank,

That's good information, data, yes, i will remember that next time. But you are right, even if you could pick your own rules and if the map maker had different layers for different types of road, track etc, the same as CAD draftsmen have been doing for 20 years or more.

But yets, I will return it FWIW. The thing is totally unusable for my purposes.

Thanks again

ross
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosscoact
even if you could pick your own rules and if the map maker had different layers for different types of road, track etc, the same as CAD draftsmen have been doing for 20 years or more.
Not quite how it is done ...

The bottom layer (0) has everything (normally .. I do not have everything here myself .. but as a 'rule' everthing)

Then you select something and 'extend' it up to what ever layer you want .. normally you select by the type of thing - major highways would go near the top layer for instance. You can select individual things .. like teh birdsvill track for instance and extend that up to where ever .. but doing individual things is a lot more work .. the birdsvill track would be in serveral pices (cannot have things too long - data is limited in volume) and probably over several 'tiles' - bits of the total map, tiles are used to keeep the data size small too .. I've one tile that is 65Mb .. takes 4 hours to complie...

You can have upto 8 layers .. but noramlly most limit themselves to 5 active layers ... 2 layers are usaed by the preview files - the overall thing used by mapsource.. would have to think through an explanation of this..
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner
Not quite how it is done ...

The bottom layer (0) has everything (normally .. I do not have everything here myself .. but as a 'rule' everthing)

Then you select something and 'extend' it up to what ever layer you want .. normally you select by the type of thing - major highways would go near the top layer for instance. You can select individual things .. like teh birdsvill track for instance and extend that up to where ever .. but doing individual things is a lot more work .. the birdsvill track would be in serveral pices (cannot have things too long - data is limited in volume) and probably over several 'tiles' - bits of the total map, tiles are used to keeep the data size small too .. I've one tile that is 65Mb .. takes 4 hours to complie...

You can have upto 8 layers .. but noramlly most limit themselves to 5 active layers ... 2 layers are usaed by the preview files - the overall thing used by mapsource.. would have to think through an explanation of this..
Couldn’t the hierarchy of different types of highway/road/track/path have a different layers? I’m thinking similar to a paper map where you can have dashed and solid to designate unpaved/paved. That way you could turn off layers to plan a dirt route, then the only things you need to establish is locked gates, fuel etc etc. What does the Hema maps on Magellen look like?
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosscoact
Couldn’t
Yes it could ...but the garman maping system does not presently work that way ...

The 'layers' are for different 'zoom levels' ... they won't change it as then it would not be compatable with the present GPSes... unless they do a microsoft and we all have to 'upgrade'

You can set up a transparent map .. so that can be turned off and on .. but that is usually used for topo lines .. could be used for anything though.. not certain how many transparent maps you could have ..
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:26 AM   #7
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I've just acquired a Garmin 60CSx. It's a nice toy and has better satellite acquisition, battery management and display than my old Magellan Meridian - BUT the maps available for it are nowhere near as good as the "Discover Aus Streets and Tracks" that I have on the Magellan - and that's been superseded by Discover Aus Topo.

I know maps are data, not software, Frank, but the analogy is the same: the bottom line is that it is the map, not the electronics that's important.

I'll toss the Garmin in the 4WD and use it connected to OziExplorer and huge numbers of raster maps.

Incidentally, the Magellan Explorist range is now on runout and they are having technical probs with the new Triton range, which I believe is a Windows Mobile device.

I'll keep going with the Meridian, I think.

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Old 04-10-2008, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveO
bottom line is that it is the map, not the electronics that's important.
Yep. I keep tellin people that when they ask want GPS they should get.... get the map FIRST!!! Then chose the GPS to suit the map .. and your requirements.

-------------- There is a comparison of maps on
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252946

For those with OZtopo .. could you post a screen shot of the same area for comparision? (on that thread)
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:44 AM   #9
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Zoom levels;
You are kidding right. OZtopo shows minor roads at higher zoom levels than CNAv6 (and much higher than CNAv7 and CNAv2008 which Garmin changed). Zoom levels are always a trade off.

There was a problem in the production build and one layer of roads (there are 5 layers) was left out in some areas such as Deua and Snowies. A maintainence release will be out early May which will fix this. Free of course to purchasers.

Combining roads and contours on PC;
http://www.oztopo.com/v2_faq.htm#27
This will take away one of the PC maps (cannot remember which).
The maintenance release wll give you separate roads, contours and combined maps.

OZtopo uses a dataset from PSMA which has a lot more tracks than either Tracks4Australia or Shonky which both use a Geoscience 250k dataset.
Errors in the built may be a problem in the short term
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveO
I've just acquired a Garmin 60CSx. It's a nice toy and has better satellite acquisition, battery management and display than my old Magellan Meridian - BUT the maps available for it are nowhere near as good as the "Discover Aus Streets and Tracks" that I have on the Magellan - and that's been superseded by Discover Aus Topo.
DiscoverAus Topo for Magellan and OZtopo use the same dataset for roads and tracks.
DiscoverAus Topo uses the December 2006 version and OZtopo uses the September 2007 version
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnieM
Zoom levels;
You are kidding right. OZtopo shows minor roads at higher zoom levels than CNAv6 (and much higher than CNAv7 and CNAv2008 which Garmin changed). Zoom levels are always a trade off.

There was a problem in the production build and one layer of roads (there are 5 layers) was left out in some areas such as Deua and Snowies. A maintainence release will be out early May which will fix this. Free of course to purchasers.

Combining roads and contours on PC;
http://www.oztopo.com/v2_faq.htm#27
This will take away one of the PC maps (cannot remember which).
The maintenance release wll give you separate roads, contours and combined maps.

OZtopo uses a dataset from PSMA which has a lot more tracks than either Tracks4Australia or Shonky which both use a Geoscience 250k dataset.
Errors in the built may be a problem in the short term
.
Burnie, nope not kidding, I cannot see any dirt trails until I'm at 3k scale which is virtually useless for trip planning. OK perhaps I was exaggerating with the CN comparison but both Shonky and T4A are far far superior to trip plan on Mapsource.

Now I haven't taken it out for a ride so I'm not sure about how it will be on the Garmin but I assume there is the potential for problems planning on one map set then navigating on another.

Thanks for the link
rossco
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnieM
DiscoverAus Topo for Magellan and OZtopo use the same dataset for roads and tracks.
DiscoverAus Topo uses the December 2006 version and OZtopo uses the September 2007 version
.
Well the source data might be the same, but that doesn't necessarily mean they *use* it all.

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Old 04-20-2008, 09:53 PM   #13
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Pissed

Well I went for a ride, 60cx and Oztopo, I had planned a route on Mapsource and first issue was,

Tracks do not exist, I'm not sure that this particular part of the route was planned on Oztopo or T4A or Shonky but the tracks were shown using oztopo but did not exist (it was fun bush bashing on trhe DRZ though)

Second issue was when i brought up the route, hit navigate and an error message came up about the rouite having more than 50 waypoints. Now my terminology may be shaky but I thought they were via points not waypoints and FFS if I cannot plot a route with more than 50 via points I'll chuck the 60cx to the shithouse and buy a Quest.

All in all, I'm completely over Oztopo, I think it is pretty much useless for anything I do and so I'm going back to Shonky which appears to be better in every aspect.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:59 AM   #14
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50 points in a route is fairly common.
I believe the Quest also has this route limit (but I will have to check).
You can create several routes of 50 points each.

Wait for the OZtopo maintenance release. Yes there are holes in the current OZtopo build.
The OZtopo roads and tracks data (MapData Sciences/PSMA) has much more 4WD track coverage than Shonky/Tracks4Australia which use the Geoscience dataset

Tracks can exist in a dataset that have been closed off.
Tracks certainly exist on the Lands NSW 1:25k paper maps that have not been accessable for some time.
No map is perfect. The best paper map in the world has 1,000 errors
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Old 04-24-2008, 05:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnieM
50 points in a route is fairly common.
I believe the Quest also has this route limit (but I will have to check).
You can create several routes of 50 points each.

Wait for the OZtopo maintenance release. Yes there are holes in the current OZtopo build.
The OZtopo roads and tracks data (MapData Sciences/PSMA) has much more 4WD track coverage than Shonky/Tracks4Australia which use the Geoscience dataset

Tracks can exist in a dataset that have been closed off.
Tracks certainly exist on the Lands NSW 1:25k paper maps that have not been accessable for some time.
No map is perfect. The best paper map in the world has 1,000 errors
.
Burnie,

Look I hear what you're sayin. I'm just pissed off that I paid out money for a product that doesn't work. This is not a critiisism of gpsoz who are a great organisation with great customer service.

I repeat my previous observation, oztopo2 is crap
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