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Old 12-13-2011, 10:18 AM   #976
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:18 PM   #977
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Not sure if project pieces count for this thread, but this is the Ninja 500's center stand that friends and I cut the thin bottom feet off of last night, extended, and welded back together (with new wider / thicker feet) to give more room for a dual-sport rear tire (and I painted it today as well):





It added an inch and a quarter - hopefully that will be enough.
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:36 AM   #978
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Looking good. I'll need to do this exact mod (and on the side-stand) when I finally figure out this whole arc welding thing.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:00 AM   #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-s View Post
Looking good. I'll need to do this exact mod (and on the side-stand) when I finally figure out this whole arc welding thing.

"Non critical" welding is easy. As long as a failed weld "won't hurt anyone" just practice on some scrap metal and then "go for it". If the weld breaks just try it again. No problem if it's big and ugly, a grinder & paint will make er' purty again.

You can get a cheap 110V welder for $100 or less. Also get an "auto darkening" helmet, so you can see whats going much easier. They're about $50 these days for a cheapie.

Lots of folks "snub" cheap tools, but I love them. Unless you use the tool regularly for a job, or have clueless employees abusing them, cheap Harbor Frt tools rock. You can afford all types of tools that you'd otherwise never consider buying. Plus you can afford to have multiples of common tools that you misplace, which comes in handy after a few beers.

Btw, if you "don't like Chinese tools" good luck finding any made in the US these days. Now all the big name tools are made there.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:49 AM   #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
"Non critical" welding is easy. As long as a failed weld "won't hurt anyone" just practice on some scrap metal and then "go for it". If the weld breaks just try it again. No problem if it's big and ugly, a grinder & paint will make er' purty again.

You can get a cheap 110V welder for $100 or less. Also get an "auto darkening" helmet, so you can see whats going much easier. They're about $50 these days for a cheapie.
I agree with Glenn on getting stuff done, but would you guys diss me if I told you mine was done with a +$7000 Lincoln Tig welder? Nothing like a little bit of overkill, eh? In retrospect, now that we're talking welding, I probably should have taken pics of the tig welds (oh so beautiful) themselves before painting it

Arc welding may do it, but keep in mind that my center stand was thin tubing (and I have a feeling a lot of them are), so from what I understand some real experience and specific rods may be needed to not over-penetrate thin stuff. Of course the kickstand/sidestand is solid, so that will be easier to arc weld.
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:44 AM   #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
I agree with Glenn on getting stuff done, but would you guys diss me if I told you mine was done with a +$7000 Lincoln Tig welder? Nothing like a little bit of overkill, eh? In retrospect, now that we're talking welding, I probably should have taken pics of the tig welds (oh so beautiful) themselves before painting it

Arc welding may do it, but keep in mind that my center stand was thin tubing (and I have a feeling a lot of them are), so from what I understand some real experience and specific rods may be needed to not over-penetrate thin stuff. Of course the kickstand/sidestand is solid, so that will be easier to arc weld.

I'd never poo-poo nice tools. I'd love to have a fancy Tig welder. There's nothing overkill about having great tools if you can afford them or have access to them.

I was only trying to get folks to understand that welding is very do-able on a small budget and isn't very hard to do okay (but it is hard to do "great" without a lot of experience) , which is fine for many projects.

For welding a thin tube without the delicate skills or Tig welder you can often insert an snug fitting inner tube or rod to reinforce the area where the weld is.
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:07 AM   #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
I'd never poo-poo nice tools. I'd love to have a fancy Tig welder. There's nothing overkill about having great tools if you can afford them or have access to them.
Oh, I know you weren't. It wasn't my Tig, but I wish it was!

Quote:
For welding a thin tube without the delicate skills or Tig welder you can often insert an snug fitting inner tube or rod to reinforce the area where the weld is.
And that is a great idea, but it reminds me that I probably should write my theory of what I did. The options were
1. find identical-sized tubing, then put an inner tube-piece with a slit in it to give the weld backing and to center the new tubing with the old (finding identical tubing to the O.D. of the original center-stand is probably a headache on most bikes, it's not like Jap bike companies grab stock tubing to make many parts for their motorcycles)
2. find tubing to slide over the center-stand's tubing
3. find tubing, pipe or solid stock to fit inside the center-stand's tubing.

In the end I went with the Inside option, as while it doesn't give much, it does give a little more clearance for a wider tire, or for being further back on the existing tire. Tubing over the existing tubing will take up that space.

I'm not saying it can't be done with many bikes, but it was an issue with mine. You can probably see how I also welded the feet ("skis" I called them) at the outside ends, too, to not be a clearance issue. Without a well-thought-out curve to the new skis, or even with using the old feet, the new angle of incidence will make it tougher to get the bike up on the stand. Mine? I would say that some thought went into the ski curves, but I am certain I could have made slightly longer skis with a progressively curved profile that would work better. I have a relatively light bike though, and found that it wasn't that bad with boots (but is now real tough to get it up on the stand with flip flops for around-the-house moving of the bike).
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"After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion
that more people cruise the internet looking for reasons why
X bike won't work in Y scenario rather than actually riding
their motorcycles
." --
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Mambo Dave screwed with this post 12-14-2011 at 12:11 PM
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:26 AM   #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
"Non critical" welding is easy. As long as a failed weld "won't hurt anyone" just practice on some scrap metal and then "go for it". If the weld breaks just try it again. No problem if it's big and ugly, a grinder & paint will make er' purty again.

You can get a cheap 110V welder for $100 or less. Also get an "auto darkening" helmet, so you can see whats going much easier. They're about $50 these days for a cheapie.

Lots of folks "snub" cheap tools, but I love them. Unless you use the tool regularly for a job, or have clueless employees abusing them, cheap Harbor Frt tools rock. You can afford all types of tools that you'd otherwise never consider buying. Plus you can afford to have multiples of common tools that you misplace, which comes in handy after a few beers.

Btw, if you "don't like Chinese tools" good luck finding any made in the US these days. Now all the big name tools are made there.
found a auto darkening helmet for half the price of the usual hardware store gear on ebay, and it's a 20 minute drive from home .

On the way down i'm going to pick up a cheap angle grinder too. I've also found a MIG system for $160 at a local shop on christmas special too. Having a look at their ebay store, here's an expired ebay sale for the same item at a non-special price) I have no idea if i should get it. Especially considering the 10% duty cycle at 100a (seriously?) but fk it, i'll have a look to satisfy curiosity. Either way as I'm not looking into gas I admit i know i'll have a crapload of slag to chip off.

Will stop by an engineering shop or two tomorrow and try and pick up some steel scrap for practice too

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Old 12-15-2011, 10:18 AM   #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-s View Post
... I've also found a MIG system for $160 at a local shop on christmas special too. Having a look at their ebay store, here's an expired ebay sale for the same item at a non-special price) I have no idea if i should get it. Especially considering the 10% duty cycle at 100a (seriously?) but fk it, i'll have a look to satisfy curiosity. Either way as I'm not looking into gas I admit i know i'll have a crapload of slag to chip off.
It is your money and only you know what you wil do with the welder. But, human nature being the way it is, I just have to throw in my opinion. When buying a welder you really need to anticipate all you might ever do with it, find welders that will meet your requirements then buy the best one in the group you can afford.
The little inexpensive units are very close to useless. Quite often their wire feed mechanism will be anything other than precise and that will make your welds inconsistant. I have known several people with those machines who were unable to purchase consumables anywhere in their local area. Go to a welding supply store and try out a MIG welder with gas and one without. There is just no comparison. I am all for saving money where I can, but I really don't recommend it with welders.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:08 AM   #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-s View Post
found a auto darkening helmet for half the price of the usual hardware store gear on ebay, and it's a 20 minute drive from home .

On the way down i'm going to pick up a cheap angle grinder too. I've also found a MIG system for $160 at a local shop on christmas special too. Having a look at their ebay store, here's an expired ebay sale for the same item at a non-special price) I have no idea if i should get it. Especially considering the 10% duty cycle at 100a (seriously?) but fk it, i'll have a look to satisfy curiosity. Either way as I'm not looking into gas I admit i know i'll have a crapload of slag to chip off.

Will stop by an engineering shop or two tomorrow and try and pick up some steel scrap for practice too
10% at full amps is OK I would guess as you don't have to run it at full amps all of the time for anything but the thickest of metal.

From what I've read, and the welding class I've been taking, if you change the wire out for the thinnest you can find (either flux or regular), that 10% at max isn't much of a hindrance as you just won't need that many amps to lay good beads (you may run more of them for a given area).

Make do with what you got. I just got back from picking up some tubing and a bar to try my hand at making a pannier support rack. I am going to need to change out the flux wire that came with my Lincoln welder, anyway, since this tubing is so thin-walled.



Next time I may just order 6-foot lengths instead of 8...

But, anyway, like AK Oldman was saying, I'd seriously consider what you want to weld, too. If my plan was to weld roll-cages or tractors, I'd probably get a cheap used "tombstone" Lincoln stick welder. I think for this thinner-walled stuff that is my only current plan, the small flux/ mig welder is going to be better. It may not be the welder for any and everything I ever need, but for the price, portability and practice it is everything I need right now.

Edit: My first rectangle ever bent just a few minutes ago:

__________________
"After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion
that more people cruise the internet looking for reasons why
X bike won't work in Y scenario rather than actually riding
their motorcycles
." --
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Oldman View Post
It is your money and only you know what you wil do with the welder. But, human nature being the way it is, I just have to throw in my opinion. When buying a welder you really need to anticipate all you might ever do with it, find welders that will meet your requirements then buy the best one in the group you can afford.
The little inexpensive units are very close to useless. Quite often their wire feed mechanism will be anything other than precise and that will make your welds inconsistant. I have known several people with those machines who were unable to purchase consumables anywhere in their local area. Go to a welding supply store and try out a MIG welder with gas and one without. There is just no comparison. I am all for saving money where I can, but I really don't recommend it with welders.

I understandwhat you're saying. I'd probably "stick" with a stick welder if you're going with a cheapie. You're only dealing with the transformer, not the wire feeder or replacement wire. I only have a Lincoln AC/DC hot box, so stick welding is all I know. For the stuff I've used it for a little 110V basic stick welder would probably have worked fine. It's probably wise to take a basic welding class before buying anything, but schools always have heavy duty tools so you wouldn't know how "minimal" you can go from what you learn in most classes.

I guess you could buy a cheapie and "keep your receipt" in case it's worthless.
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:07 PM   #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
I guess you could buy a cheapie and "keep your receipt" in case it's worthless.
Thanks for the input guys, this line is the one I work with anyway. These guys honour warranties & returns quite reasonably, and my use is going to be pretty lightweight, so i can't see it being too much of a hassle if i get it. Am minutes away from heading out to take a look now anyway.

p.s. there are PLENTY of places to buy consumables, both places that stock the lowes/walmart equivalent (in Australia here) as well as the higher quality stuff used by pro's & everything else in between.
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:43 PM   #988
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Ended up buying the mig after a bit of confusion with prices being inconsistent (shelf had 199, catalogue had 159). Was a bit confusing as they don't put the specials prices on the shelf tags & you get a nice surprise at the register. A bit silly but i got the cheaper price so I'm happy.

Bought a roll of .8 and .9mm wire, along with the tips to match. I considered .6 but i figured .8 was light weight enough as it is. Also got that auto darkening helmet as well as a grinder & stopped by an engineering shop and asked. Scored about 5kg's of 8-9mm steel plate that were remenants from some plasma cutting. Was told I could come back Monday as it was just the one guy on to recieve deliveries today and i would certainly score a lot more too as everyone would be there .

I'm going to have a fun weekend, Christmas party tomorrow night + this = happy me.
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:47 PM   #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
10% at full amps is OK I would guess as you don't have to run it at full amps all of the time for anything but the thickest of metal.

From what I've read, and the welding class I've been taking, if you change the wire out for the thinnest you can find (either flux or regular), that 10% at max isn't much of a hindrance as you just won't need that many amps to lay good beads (you may run more of them for a given area).

Make do with what you got. I just got back from picking up some tubing and a bar to try my hand at making a pannier support rack. I am going to need to change out the flux wire that came with my Lincoln welder, anyway, since this tubing is so thin-walled.



Next time I may just order 6-foot lengths instead of 8...

But, anyway, like AK Oldman was saying, I'd seriously consider what you want to weld, too. If my plan was to weld roll-cages or tractors, I'd probably get a cheap used "tombstone" Lincoln stick welder. I think for this thinner-walled stuff that is my only current plan, the small flux/ mig welder is going to be better. It may not be the welder for any and everything I ever need, but for the price, portability and practice it is everything I need right now.

Edit: My first rectangle ever bent just a few minutes ago:


Looks good! Looks like 3/4" tubing, what did you use to bend it?????
I too am making racks (my benders are for 1/2" but I wanted to use 3/4) I had to take my tubing to a shop to get it bent with tight radius (cost me 40 bucks) since I didnt have one for 3/4", yours looks pretty good. I would like to get a bender for 3/4. What did you use if you dont mind my asking?


A pic of my racks (I intended to mount spare gas cans inside the frame and pelican boxes outside).






My headlight frame also from 3/4" for the ring and 1/2" for the smaller frame sections. I love working with tubing.

I used a powered ridged pipe bender (the kind electricians use with the big spools on them) to bend the circle - had to do it half at a time.
Then used a hand tubing bender for the 1/2" parts.







I weld all my tubing with a TIG rig. Working with thin walled tubing it is easier to blow holes in it with the MIG.
And my Lincoln tomb stone stick machine is out or the question on thin wall.

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Old 12-16-2011, 03:53 AM   #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnduroRdr View Post
...
My headlight frame also from 3/4" for the ring and 1/2" for the smaller frame sections. I love working with tubing.

I used a powered ridged pipe bender (the kind electricians use with the big spools on them) to bend the circle - had to do it half at a time.
Then used a hand tubing bender for the 1/2" parts.
This ring looks like aluminum?

That headlight housing is true art, Enduro.

I am using an Imperial 364-FHA-10 bender, and chose 5/8" OD steel tubing. Wow, what a painful choice that choice in tubing was... it took me weeks of asking steel supply places if they had any, or could get me some cheaply.

Have any ideas for a cheap way to fish-mouth the ends of tubing? I know Harbor Freight sells a cheaper tool (which probably isn't worth it) and real tubing notchers are too expensive, so I may just try cutting two angles off of each end with an angle-grinder or Dremel, then grinding the contour.
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." --
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