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Old 04-15-2008, 03:52 PM   #31
Poolside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian_markus
Hallo,
the material is Polyethylen (the same material like fuel reservoirs)
I form two halfparts and weld them
Hey there Markus, thanks for the reply. Forming and welding is a good solution for low volume. Sure much better than a rotomold.

I know we have a language difference and thanks in advance for bearing with my curiosity.

By welding, do you mean a process where plastic 'filler material' is added? Or is it a 'fusing' process. Fuse meaning, the two flat mating surfaces are heated to melting temp, and then quickly pushed together. Or a possibly vibration or ultrasonic welding process.

I'm not trying to judge, I am just curious. I wish you much success.

- Jim


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Poolside screwed with this post 04-15-2008 at 09:05 PM
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:01 PM   #32
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Is a separate filler needed for the aux tank?

Why can't the secondary tank be filled from the primary tank via whatever pumping mechanism that'll be used to get the fuel out of the tank? Some kind of reversible pump or gravity feed from the primary tank to the secondary.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


Hey there Markus, thanks for the reply. Forming and welding is a good solution for low volume. Sure much better than a rotomold.

I know we have a language difference and thanks in advance for bearing with my curiosity.

By welding, do you mean a process where plastic 'filler material' is added? Or is it a 'fusing' process. Fuse meaning, the two flat mating surfaces are heated to melting temp, and then quickly pushed together. Or a possibly vibration or ultrasonic welding process.

I'm not trying to judge, I am just curious. I wish you much success.

- Jim
Hallo Jim,
by welding I mean, I bring heat with a welding mirrow into the border of the two halfparts, than I quickly push together and let it cool. No vibration, because you bring in this way dirt in your tank. In this time we donīt use
vibration welding machines for parts of the automobil industrie. We take mirrows or heating gaz.

Greetings, Markus
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by configurationspace
Is a separate filler needed for the aux tank?

Why can't the secondary tank be filled from the primary tank via whatever pumping mechanism that'll be used to get the fuel out of the tank? Some kind of reversible pump or gravity feed from the primary tank to the secondary.
Hello,

the problem in this way is, that my friends donīt want wait a so long time on the petrol station
When you take a fuel pump (normal 90l/h) and my tank has the volume of 9l, it takes over 6min only for pumping.
In the time you displace your tank bag and fill the primary tank, you can release your rear baggage, take your bench (I have a fast lock mechanism),
and you can go on.

greetings, Markus
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:05 PM   #35
Warthog
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Cool2 My 2 centaros ... Right side fill

I agree with BMWAtlanta, it should be a right side fill. I have bags, videos, frozen dinners, toolbag and ... stuff ... strapped to the seat/rack on any given day. Additionally, it is a pain in the ass (and a kink in my style) to grab that stupid little tamper-resistant star torx fob thingie, stick it on the dumb-ass little screw, and then perform 14 counter-clockwise rotations.

I like to fill the bike while I'm sitting on it. I have a 30 inch inseam, so I just put my foot on the platform and gas it up. It's an ordeal to get on and off the beast for some of us.

Alternatively, just use a reversible low pressure pump with inline filters. Hit the switch to pump from main tank to rear tank....drive....flip the switch to reverse the flow of gas back to the main tank. I think that is what the other guy did with his steel under-seat tank. Even better, don't use an electric pump. Mount a hand pump. A few pumps, and the siphon action kicks in...no electricity needed, one less electric motor for failure.



I won't buy one unless the price goes South of 280 Euros....but I also understand that this is a small-batch labor intensive manufacturing process you have going (a right side fill may make fabrication more complex as well....) The tanks won't really be affordable unless someone (feel free to step up, Acerbis) creates a 5 ton mold for an industrial HDPE plastic injection molding machine...and then they run a batch of 1000 units (which should be plenty of units for the 700 or so HP2 bikes sold).
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian_markus
Hallo Jim,
by welding I mean, I bring heat with a welding mirrow into the border of the two halfparts, than I quickly push together and let it cool. No vibration, because you bring in this way dirt in your tank. In this time we donīt use
vibration welding machines for parts of the automobil industrie. We take mirrows or heating gaz.
Nice. The fusion welding method is the most strong. Far stronger than the parent material.

In looking at the foam pattern of the HP2 tank, I'm interested to see where you put the border (parting) line

For the people here who are interested, the flat plate heating element (mirrows, I hope), that Markus uses is also called a platen. The fusion welding join is stronger that the parent material, and is commonly used for pressure piping in municipal water supply.

Here are a couple of videos showing the process. Obviously pipe is a different shape the the HP2 tank, but the idea is the same.

Here is a video of a destructive test of a polyethylene fusion welded part:
http://www.mcelroy.com/fusion/resour...thylene_01.wmv

And what fusion welding is all about:
http://www.mcelroy.com/fusion/resour.../theory_01.wmv


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Old 04-15-2008, 11:02 PM   #37
bavarian_markus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog
I agree with BMWAtlanta, it should be a right side fill. I have bags, videos, frozen dinners, toolbag and ... stuff ... strapped to the seat/rack on any given day. Additionally, it is a pain in the ass (and a kink in my style) to grab that stupid little tamper-resistant star torx fob thingie, stick it on the dumb-ass little screw, and then perform 14 counter-clockwise rotations.

I like to fill the bike while I'm sitting on it. I have a 30 inch inseam, so I just put my foot on the platform and gas it up. It's an ordeal to get on and off the beast for some of us.

Alternatively, just use a reversible low pressure pump with inline filters. Hit the switch to pump from main tank to rear tank....drive....flip the switch to reverse the flow of gas back to the main tank. I think that is what the other guy did with his steel under-seat tank. Even better, don't use an electric pump. Mount a hand pump. A few pumps, and the siphon action kicks in...no electricity needed, one less electric motor for failure.



I won't buy one unless the price goes South of 280 Euros....but I also understand that this is a small-batch labor intensive manufacturing process you have going (a right side fill may make fabrication more complex as well....) The tanks won't really be affordable unless someone (feel free to step up, Acerbis) creates a 5 ton mold for an industrial HDPE plastic injection molding machine...and then they run a batch of 1000 units (which should be plenty of units for the 700 or so HP2 bikes sold).
Hello,
I have a quicklock system for my seat (look on my written Text)
And it is also posible to make a filling on the right side. But if you have side cases, it can be a problem.
Do you know the costs of a 5ton molding form - I know. Thats the reason, that the other tanks (HPN, TT, AQ) are so expensiv.
I take no electrical pump - I make something with low pressure.
And normal I donīt want to sell tanks. Only many HP2 drivers in the German forum ask me: please make a tank for me - your tank is so professional - your knowledge of your job, you have to built tanks for us.
I donīt know a detailed price and I donīt know if I should make more tanks because my first idea was, to make a few tanks for me and my friends for a small price.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:19 PM   #38
bavarian_markus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


Nice. The fusion welding method is the most strong. Far stronger than the parent material.

In looking at the foam pattern of the HP2 tank, I'm interested to see where you put the border (parting) line

For the people here who are interested, the flat plate heating element (mirrows, I hope), that Markus uses is also called a platen. The fusion welding join is stronger that the parent material, and is commonly used for pressure piping in municipal water supply.

Here are a couple of videos showing the process. Obviously pipe is a different shape the the HP2 tank, but the idea is the same.

Here is a video of a destructive test of a polyethylene fusion welded part:
http://www.mcelroy.com/fusion/resour...thylene_01.wmv

And what fusion welding is all about:
http://www.mcelroy.com/fusion/resour.../theory_01.wmv

correct,
fusion welding is the best process to get a high burst pressure. We have this claim for our reservoir: brake reservoir 12bar (bar - I donīt know in english???), servo oil reservoirs 9bar, cooling water reservoirs 9bar....
For each 100 reservoirs we make a burst pressure test.

In a few days, I send you pictures of the border of the halfparts.

greetings, Markus
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Old 04-16-2008, 03:54 AM   #39
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Will the proposed auxillary tank also fit the R1200GS standard and Adv. line ?
If so, many more would purchase, allowing reduced costs.
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:12 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QualityAir
Will the proposed auxillary tank also fit the R1200GS standard and Adv. line ?
If so, many more would purchase, allowing reduced costs.
Totally different subframe and alot more clutter to deal with under the R12GS/ADV
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:01 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian_markus
correct,
fusion welding is the best process to get a high burst pressure. We have this claim for our reservoir: brake reservoir 12bar (bar - I donīt know in english???), servo oil reservoirs 9bar, cooling water reservoirs 9bar....
For each 100 reservoirs we make a burst pressure test.

In a few days, I send you pictures of the border of the halfparts.

greetings, Markus
From memory, 1 bar = approx 14.6 psi.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:13 AM   #42
bavarian_markus
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3d picture

Hello together,

here is the link to my german forum with construction pictures

http://www.gs-forum.eu/showthread.php?t=19229&page=18
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:00 AM   #43
Renazco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian_markus
Hello together,

here is the link to my german forum with construction pictures

http://www.gs-forum.eu/showthread.php?t=19229&page=18
Beautifull !!
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:54 PM   #44
bavarian_markus
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3d construction

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Old 04-16-2008, 11:56 PM   #45
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Interested

Hope you are making a list, I'd like to be on it. Mike
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