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Old 01-15-2010, 08:23 PM   #5311
tylerjwhite
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My two cents on First aid

Any of you military people will know what I am taking about and if you don't my res ponce is learn how to us Google. :) Anyway having said that when I was in the "back country" literally a 3rd world backwards country I was taught a few things that I think work for a motorcycle in the same/similar situation. Cary an A bag or a medical bag with the basics like stuff to stop bleeding such as gauze a tourniquet (a definite must), something to stop up big gaping holes, like in the abdomen and stuff to make splints out of, either a SAM splint or at least a couple of bandannas and safety pins, then use sticks or what ever is at hand. Don't forget rubber gloves and scissors to cut clothes free. A C spine or neck brace is also a good idea. That will stabilize your patient. Also think of a blanket (heat or shade) and water and little band aids because realistically your going to use more of those than anything else in the pack. Once the patient is stabilized know where he/she is and get to a place to make a call out and/or get out and get help then get back fast. If there are three people, one leaves one stays with the victim. Your best bet in a very bad situation is stabilize then get a helicopter and move them fast.

Below are some links with kits like this.

http://www.captaindaves.com/shop/firstaid.html#1165

http://www.afmo.com/Military_IFAK_FA187_p/211-00599.htm

I have a big A bag and a smaller more realistic IFAK = Improved First Aid Kit that for some reason won't upload on here.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:34 PM   #5312
ten_fiver
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I agree with Ty. As a Veteran, I also have the same experience with first aid gear. Hit Google and see if you can find the contents of the newest model trauma kit the military uses. It fits in a small pouch and has almost everything you need for battle type injuries. If nothing else, go with the SAM splints. Those things are amazing. You can splint up anything with them, including a basic C-spine. They fold up small and light, and they do the trick. Also check out quick-clot. It's a last option for first aid, but if you are stuck in the middle of nowhere and can't get bleeding to stop, it will. Again small and light. Just check out military stuff and you're set.

edit: I just looked at those links Ty posted. Those IFAK kits look like the current kits used. I would probably replace the tourniquet with SAM splints and you're set. Remember, you use a tourniquet, you lose that body part. And you can always make one out of strips of shirts etc. and sticks.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:45 PM   #5313
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Better yet! If you're doing some sweet backcountry riding, just invite me and Ty along and all is good!
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:21 AM   #5314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric
Thats a record of trophy hits. Once in a while you get a dog too.
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:16 AM   #5315
HickOnACrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerjwhite
Any of you military people will know what I am taking about and if you don't my res ponce is learn how to us Google. :) Anyway having said that when I was in the "back country" literally a 3rd world backwards country I was taught a few things that I think work for a motorcycle in the same/similar situation. Cary an A bag or a medical bag with the basics like stuff to stop bleeding such as gauze a tourniquet (a definite must), something to stop up big gaping holes, like in the abdomen and stuff to make splints out of, either a SAM splint or at least a couple of bandannas and safety pins, then use sticks or what ever is at hand. Don't forget rubber gloves and scissors to cut clothes free. A C spine or neck brace is also a good idea. That will stabilize your patient. Also think of a blanket (heat or shade) and water and little band aids because realistically your going to use more of those than anything else in the pack. Once the patient is stabilized know where he/she is and get to a place to make a call out and/or get out and get help then get back fast. If there are three people, one leaves one stays with the victim. Your best bet in a very bad situation is stabilize then get a helicopter and move them fast.

Below are some links with kits like this.

http://www.captaindaves.com/shop/firstaid.html#1165

http://www.afmo.com/Military_IFAK_FA187_p/211-00599.htm

I have a big A bag and a smaller more realistic IFAK = Improved First Aid Kit that for some reason won't upload on here.

So I do a fair amount of doctorin' and what I take with me on solo trips is:

SPOT messenger
SPOT messenger
SPOT messenger
Cell phone with Verizon coverage
Something to stop the bleeding.

The way I look at it...remember the ABCs:
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

With regards to airway - if you are in the backcountry and have lost the airway, you have about 5 minutes to re-establish it. If you can't, your patient has likely suffered irreversible brain damage and does not want to be resuscitated anyway (people who live to be in the backcountry generally aren't too keen to live in a vegetative state). I do carry a scalpel and basic surgery tools and could in a pinch perform a minor surgery to create an airway, but this is not something you will learn to do in a wilderness course.

With regards to breathing - Know how to do CPR. A serious knock to the noggin can render someone unable to breathe for themselves and you can save their life by understanding how to do mouth-to-mouth. If I am doing mouth to mouth, I am hitting the 911 button on the SPOT, and trying to get an airlift out. The reason is that a hit that is serious enough to knock out the respiratory drive is likely to have caused some bleeding inside the brain as well and your buddy needs a CT-scan and a neurosurgeon close by.

With regards to circulation - stop the bleeding. This is the only thing I make sure I have the resources to do in the backcountry. Direct pressure, direct pressure, direct pressure. Use whatever you have: gauze, sponges, shirts, underwear, socks, etc. If you see spurting blood (artery), think about a tourniquet, but tourniquets are almost never needed in the absence of a large severed artery. Almost any bleed can be stopped with enough pressure and patience.

Splints? Be creative. The idea of a splint is to prevent a broken bone from moving too much. Sticks, wire ties, plastic parts from your bike...you can even use rolled up paper if there is enough around.

Cervical injuries? stabilize the neck and head. Use whatever nature has left you to make sure the head and neck don't move, then use your SPOT to bring in help.

And whatever you do, never under any circumstances should you wrestle your bike up a cliff, then ride it home if you have a broken back.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:58 AM   #5316
The Walrus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HickOnACrick

The way I look at it...remember the ABCs:
Airway
Breathing
Circulation



However, as you well know........when riding with geezers like pluric, you can not ignore the D........Defibrillator.......geezers are prone to needing one acutely.....

Just sayin............
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:01 AM   #5317
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ten_fiver
FAKE!! Where's the 6 dogs, 3 cats, 4 horses, and a couple goats??
Infidels slumber party?
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:15 AM   #5318
harcus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HickOnACrick
So I do a fair amount of doctorin' and what I take with me on solo trips is:

SPOT messenger
SPOT messenger
SPOT messenger
Cell phone with Verizon coverage
Something to stop the bleeding.

The way I look at it...remember the ABCs:
Airway
Breathing
Circulation


With regards to airway - if you are in the backcountry and have lost the airway, you have about 5 minutes to re-establish it. If you can't, your patient has likely suffered irreversible brain damage and does not want to be resuscitated anyway (people who live to be in the backcountry generally aren't too keen to live in a vegetative state). I do carry a scalpel and basic surgery tools and could in a pinch perform a minor surgery to create an airway, but this is not something you will learn to do in a wilderness course.

With regards to breathing - Know how to do CPR. A serious knock to the noggin can render someone unable to breathe for themselves and you can save their life by understanding how to do mouth-to-mouth. If I am doing mouth to mouth, I am hitting the 911 button on the SPOT, and trying to get an airlift out. The reason is that a hit that is serious enough to knock out the respiratory drive is likely to have caused some bleeding inside the brain as well and your buddy needs a CT-scan and a neurosurgeon close by.

With regards to circulation - stop the bleeding. This is the only thing I make sure I have the resources to do in the backcountry. Direct pressure, direct pressure, direct pressure. Use whatever you have: gauze, sponges, shirts, underwear, socks, etc. If you see spurting blood (artery), think about a tourniquet, but tourniquets are almost never needed in the absence of a large severed artery. Almost any bleed can be stopped with enough pressure and patience.

Splints? Be creative. The idea of a splint is to prevent a broken bone from moving too much. Sticks, wire ties, plastic parts from your bike...you can even use rolled up paper if there is enough around.

Cervical injuries? stabilize the neck and head. Use whatever nature has left you to make sure the head and neck don't move, then use your SPOT to bring in help.

And whatever you do, never under any circumstances should you wrestle your bike up a cliff, then ride it home if you have a broken back.

This is good practical advice! Thanks, Hick!


And, of course, there is one more thing to add...Look before you leap!

The best medical care is...Don't get your self into a position where you need it!

A high percentage of injuries can be prevented by THINKING.

As the old line goes...The life you save may be your own!
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:30 AM   #5319
tylerjwhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ten_fiver
I agree with Ty. As a Veteran, I also have the same experience with first aid gear. Hit Google and see if you can find the contents of the newest model trauma kit the military uses. It fits in a small pouch and has almost everything you need for battle type injuries. If nothing else, go with the SAM splints. Those things are amazing. You can splint up anything with them, including a basic C-spine. They fold up small and light, and they do the trick. Also check out quick-clot. It's a last option for first aid, but if you are stuck in the middle of nowhere and can't get bleeding to stop, it will. Again small and light. Just check out military stuff and you're set.

edit: I just looked at those links Ty posted. Those IFAK kits look like the current kits used. I would probably replace the tourniquet with SAM splints and you're set. Remember, you use a tourniquet, you lose that body part. And you can always make one out of strips of shirts etc. and sticks.
Technology has advanced to the point that you actually have a few hours before you lose the body part because they can control the effect that the poisons that reenter the blood stream have on the body when releasing the tourniquet. It is a risk you might lose the limb but not like it used to be.
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:31 AM   #5320
tylerjwhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ten_fiver
Better yet! If you're doing some sweet backcountry riding, just invite me and Ty along and all is good!
Halleluiah I concur. And we will bring Hick :)
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:49 AM   #5321
trackhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerjwhite
Technology has advanced to the point that you actually have a few hours before you lose the body part because they can control the effect that the poisons that reenter the blood stream have on the body when releasing the tourniquet. It is a risk you might lose the limb but not like it used to be.
Rhabdomyolysis.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:06 PM   #5322
tylerjwhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackhead
Rhabdomyolysis.
Be careful big words scare people here.... :)
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:27 PM   #5323
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerjwhite
Be careful big words scare people here.... :)
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:04 PM   #5324
Ryman
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I'm all hung up on the thought of mouth to mouth from Travis.
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:29 PM   #5325
trackhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryman
I'm all hung up on the thought of mouth to mouth from Travis.
Faking head injuries is in your future.

I have and agreement with the guy I ride with that if we can't feel our arms/legs after a crash, then the best first aid is a 9mm round to the head. No need for a SPOT for trail side assistance of this sort.
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