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Old 04-21-2011, 08:21 AM   #6196
veetwo _tls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erdsh View Post
I keep the right side petcock allways open. and when I tried what you're sugesting it didnt work.
Does anyone knows the pressure the fuel pump should supply? it is not written anywhere.






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Old 04-21-2011, 09:13 PM   #6197
TEZZA
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Pump kit

Hi Vee Two, good info . Dose any one know where to get a kit for the DF52-136 fuel pump as on the info there is no kits avalible for this pump?????
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Originally Posted by veetwo _tls View Post





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Old 04-22-2011, 12:25 AM   #6198
B-Rod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEZZA View Post
Hi Vee Two, good info . Dose any one know where to get a kit for the DF52-136 fuel pump as on the info there is no kits avalible for this pump?????
Tezza

Check the last post. Motolab might have the entire pump.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:06 AM   #6199
Tseta
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Frustrated...

Long story made short, I am getting quite frustrated with my 2003 LC4 Adventure. It is having a weird starting problem.

Symptoms/current situation:

*Will start relatively easily when cold
*Once warmed up, is extremely difficult/almost impossible to start with the electric starter
*While warm, can usually be started with the kickstarter
*Starting while warm (any method) will usually produce quite loud backfiring

What I have tried to do/check so far:

*Valve clearances, spot on at 0.15mm
*Carburator, completely disassembled and cleaned, no jetting changes have been done recently
*Battery has been changed for a known good (used) battery from another LC4
*Most (obvious) electrical connections have been checked

What really puzzles me is the fact that the bike runs fine overall, and starts so well when cold. I would think that if it was a weak battery or such, it would have more difficulty when cold. Also, kickstarting works, but is tiresome. The backfiring concerns me much.

I've been reading many related threads here on AdvRider and other forums as well. So far, I haven't found anything new to check.

Maybe I should take the starter apart and check it? However, why would it then work so well when the engine is cold?

Could it be the CDI? Hopefully not, as those cannot be repaired, just replaced ($$$)...

What about something as radical as the autodeco on the cam? For some reason, when warm, the autodeco keeps engaged (stuck?), and prevents the bike from starting with the e-start. The kickstart gives a momentary faster "impulse", disengaging the autodeco, allowing the bike to start.

I'm grasping at straws here... Any and all help, pointers and advice is truly appreciated.

Cheers,

Tseta
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:33 AM   #6200
svenb
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It sound familiar to my problem a couple of years ago. I also got a 2003 adv. So I replaced my cam. No more problems that season... more seasons to come, and more problems :-).
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:39 AM   #6201
Tseta
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Maybe I should have mentioned, that I did change the cam this winter, after some catastrophic damage. However, the bike has ran fine after that, it is these last few rides that the problems have surfaced.

-T
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:53 AM   #6202
Alik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta View Post
Long story made short, I am getting quite frustrated with my 2003 LC4 Adventure. It is having a weird starting problem.

Symptoms/current situation:

*Will start relatively easily when cold
*Once warmed up, is extremely difficult/almost impossible to start with the electric starter
*While warm, can usually be started with the kickstarter
*Starting while warm (any method) will usually produce quite loud backfiring

What I have tried to do/check so far:

*Valve clearances, spot on at 0.15mm
*Carburator, completely disassembled and cleaned, no jetting changes have been done recently
*Battery has been changed for a known good (used) battery from another LC4
*Most (obvious) electrical connections have been checked

What really puzzles me is the fact that the bike runs fine overall, and starts so well when cold. I would think that if it was a weak battery or such, it would have more difficulty when cold. Also, kickstarting works, but is tiresome. The backfiring concerns me much.

I've been reading many related threads here on AdvRider and other forums as well. So far, I haven't found anything new to check.

Maybe I should take the starter apart and check it? However, why would it then work so well when the engine is cold?

Could it be the CDI? Hopefully not, as those cannot be repaired, just replaced ($$$)...

What about something as radical as the autodeco on the cam? For some reason, when warm, the autodeco keeps engaged (stuck?), and prevents the bike from starting with the e-start. The kickstart gives a momentary faster "impulse", disengaging the autodeco, allowing the bike to start.

I'm grasping at straws here... Any and all help, pointers and advice is truly appreciated.

Cheers,

Tseta
Could it be some leak from exhaust valves? Valve springs that stretch while warm? I know You have rebuild it lately, but… Maybe some human error? How long since rebuild? Did she ran OK after rebuild?

As for the starter - I renewed brushes in mine just 2 days ago. It starts way better but my starting behavior didn't changed at all. I don't think it will help but surely You can give it a go and check. I can't think of the any temperature related starter problem that would cause such behaviour.

Did You checked the air filter as well? Oiled it recently? How is the sparkplug looking? Coil? Any blown fuses recently? Something that would point us in the direction of the problem?

You usually make photos while assembling - how was the deco/autodeco looking?

A propos backfiring… is it a loud BANG after You just trying to kickstart? Once or more pop pop pop like when deccelerating and engine braking?
A loud bang would be probably the fuel fumes that leaked into the exhaust and got ignited. A series of pop pop pop would mean… well I don't know :(
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:52 AM   #6203
overlandr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta View Post
Long story made short, I am getting quite frustrated with my 2003 LC4 Adventure. It is having a weird starting problem........
Its along shot - you may have seen this post below. Gaspipe may have an angle on it.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=692
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:05 AM   #6204
Droptarotter
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Tseta;

Any way the choke is sticking?

Is your throttle slide/guide worn? If it is, the needle emulsion tube will probably be worn also.......causing a too rich mixture?

These are just guesses Tseta, good luck.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:13 AM   #6205
Tseta
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More info, answers to questions asked:

The exhaust (and intake) valves are new, as well as the valve springs, collets clips, spring retainers, etc. Basically, the whole valve train received a refreshesment during this rebuild.

It has been about 500km since the rebuild. It ran without much trouble for about 250km, and then started having these troubles. My riding has been quite on/off during this spring, so I can't really say if it truly has been a gradual or a sudden change.

Immediately after the rebuild, the bike seemed to run just fine, no problems to speak of. Even now, there only exists the problem of very difficult starting with the e-start, when warm.

I'll take a look at the starter, but it puzzles me, shouldn't it be even more difficult to start when the bike is cold.

Air filter should be OK, not dirty, but not oiled very recently either.

Spark plug looks normal, like this: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/images/plugs/champ1.jpg

I haven't checked the coil yet, no fuses are or have been blown.

I didn't disassemble or take a closer look at the autodeco on the new cam, I (perhaps incorrectly?) assumed that it would be correctly assembled and functional from the factory.

The backfiring is usually a single, loud bang. It may happen when kicking the bike, just as the bike fires up. It may also happen at the end of cranking with the e-start, when it fails to start. Sometimes, it even pops when kicking it, and failing to start.

This seems to be a very difficult and frustrating problem. My information probably does not help much with the diagnosis either. However, I truly appreciate all the responses so far. I will have to do much more checking on the bike, tomorrow.

Cheers,

Tseta

Edit:

Choke is not sticking, this was verified when taking the carb apart. The throttle slide/guide are not worn either. Needle and emulsion tube are like new, also. As I said, stumped... Sigh.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:43 AM   #6206
Alik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta View Post
(…)

The backfiring is usually a single, loud bang. It may happen when kicking the bike, just as the bike fires up. It may also happen at the end of cranking with the e-start, when it fails to start. Sometimes, it even pops when kicking it, and failing to start.
(…)
Happens to me too when I kickstart her but only after I hold the manual deco to get just past the TDCC. Usually when I blow it up and fail to kick it rightly. I assume the fuel is there, the spark is produced and it fires up into the exhaust. First time she did that I almost pinked in my pants.

I assume You checked the manual deco while assembling, and right now for tension in the cable…

The autodeco hypothesis looks even more plausible…
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:29 AM   #6207
Tseta
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Yes, I checked the manual deco as well. I keep the manual deco cable as slack as possible, to make sure that it is not "hanging up" by accident.

If it turns out to be the autodeco, I am going to be quite pissed off. A brand new cam causing troubles is definitely not OK in my book...

-T
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:49 PM   #6208
Droptarotter
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T;
I'm going back to the coil.....enough voltage and cold coil to start when it is cold. Hard starting due to short when warm. Coils show symptoms when hot sometimes. Less resistance when cold.

Another thing to think about.........just because a part is new/rebuilt.....does not mean it will work correctly.

Keep us posted.........I am sure you will figure it out.

Cheers
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:42 PM   #6209
Alik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptarotter View Post
T;
I'm going back to the coil.....enough voltage and cold coil to start when it is cold. Hard starting due to short when warm. Coils show symptoms when hot sometimes. Less resistance when cold.

Another thing to think about.........just because a part is new/rebuilt.....does not mean it will work correctly.

Keep us posted.........I am sure you will figure it out.

Cheers
As I have mentioned some time ago I have managed to fry my cables for the fan from the hot exhaust. It was related to the valve check I did before. It was extremelly hard to start and then impossible even as the coil did not have had enough juice to produce a spark.
Thinking of it… as You run - maybe some electrical equipment is draining the battery and causing the problems with starter when hot. Or maybe the ignition point got misaligned? And the starter sprague clutch? That can't be it.

I'm with the Dropatrotter with the coil. That could be it. Maybe a cable vibrates and rubs somewhere and shorts? When cold the starter cranks right away because it has no problems without vibrations & warm.

If not this could You elaborate on starting procedure of Yours? Choke or not? Throttle or not? Just curious - perhaps there is some peculiarity You didn't though about.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:54 PM   #6210
gunnerbuck
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Tseta, is your float needle in good shape? I've had mine go bad in the past and it causes all kinds of starting headaches... The rich condition a worn F-needle causes will get worse when the engine is warm...

Also make sure to inspect the wire cluster going into the CDI for wear abrasions... Also pull the CDI plug out of the unit and flush with contact cleaner and then apply electric grease to make sure it is getting full contact...

I've had the ignition systems go bad on chainsaws and other small engines as to where they run cold and outright quit working when the engine gets warm ... My experience with motorcycles are that they just quit all together when the CDI goes bad... I have had spark plug caps fail as well causing erratic running...
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