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Old 04-18-2014, 05:10 AM   #8551
Baggi'tard
Assventure rider
 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Farmhouse Inn, Tellico Plains, TN
Oddometer: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistdgas View Post
Awsome views just 3 miles from my house
You aren't too far away.. I live in Tellico Plains.. I'll be looking for your blue and black bike...

This is me off a trail near Miller's Cemetery (FS384A?) road a week or two ago...
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:31 PM   #8552
warewolf
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Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singletrak View Post
Trying to swap my front wheel on my 06 Adventure with an 03 525 EXC wheel. I need help with the wheel spacers, what are my options? I read a thread where someone suggested the spacers from an 03 Adv, that won't work I have the bigger axle. I may try getting another of the stock spacers (longer one) and use the longer spacer on each side. The spacers would have to be cut down to the proper depth.
Remove the EXC spacers, cut down the Adv spacers from 9mm to 4.5mm, bolt your spare 640 disc to the EXC wheel, et voila! You are running a single disc conversion on your 640, right? The EXC runs the same wheel bearing as the 640.
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:50 PM   #8553
twistdgas
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Location: DRAGON COUNTRY!!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggi'tard View Post
You aren't too far away.. I live in Tellico Plains.. I'll be looking for your blue and black bike...

This is me off a trail near Miller's Cemetery (FS384A?) road a week or two ago...
I visit there often via FS road 81 at the start of Charahala Skyway
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:40 AM   #8554
Dirty3
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Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Melbourne SE Burbs
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Suspension adjustment question

I've looked over the index section on setting up rear suspension but what i can't find is basic stuff.

I.e. If I want to adjust the rear pre-load to take more weight, do i lengthen or shorten the spring? Might sound like a silly question but the owners manual does not give this info, it juste tells you to make adjustment and count the mm of current setting. Standard is set at 27mm for 05 640ADV.

Reason for question is i just did a 300km ride, breaking for a few days before a longer 3 day section. When loaded up, (100kg rider + 20kg luggage) i get a low speed wobble from the front. At speed its not noticeable. When i took for a ride today with no load, low speed is fine. I did notice front & rear tyres could do with more pressure so will rectify this tomorrow. Is there a magic number for this? I have Heidenau K60 front & rear. I also figured that the load on rear was the main cause of the wobble, taking load/lightening the front wheel. Should i make adjustments here also?

Anyway, open to suggestions. I have adjusted the rear pre-load to make spring longer, i figure this should allow for more travel or support with extra luggage, but please correct me if this is wrong.

Cheers,
Neil.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:57 AM   #8555
ChrisSRT
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you need to go the other way to increase preload. shorten it to increase the preload.
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:13 AM   #8556
Boon Booni
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Since the preload is so difficult to adjust on this bike (unless you are lucky enough to have a remote preload adjuster), I set mine up to be right for my weight with gear and small load. I wouldn't set it up for a heavy load because then you'd be all messed up when you want to have fun.

Tighten the spring to support more weight.
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:41 AM   #8557
FreeGranite
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The rear preload isn't too bad to adjust. The key is lifting the rear end completely off the ground. Once its off the ground simply loosen the lock ring (I use this guy but anything long and pointy should work.) Once the lock ring is loose go ahead and grab the spring and turn. the tension against the adjustment ring will make it spin with the spring. Tighten it down to increase preload, loosen it to decrease.
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:20 PM   #8558
Dirty3
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Location: Melbourne SE Burbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeGranite View Post
The rear preload isn't too bad to adjust. The key is lifting the rear end completely off the ground. Once its off the ground simply loosen the lock ring (I use this guy but anything long and pointy should work.) Once the lock ring is loose go ahead and grab the spring and turn. the tension against the adjustment ring will make it spin with the spring. Tighten it down to increase preload, loosen it to decrease.
Looks like the tool to have. I wish i was home as i have a brass drift i could use, alas having to use whats on hand on the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Since the preload is so difficult to adjust on this bike (unless you are lucky enough to have a remote preload adjuster), I set mine up to be right for my weight with gear and small load. I wouldn't set it up for a heavy load because then you'd be all messed up when you want to have fun.

Tighten the spring to support more weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisSRT View Post
you need to go the other way to increase preload. shorten it to increase the preload.
Thanks guys appreciate the help. It wasn't too hard to adjust but going tighter i'll get the weight off the rear, i had to use thee hammer and punch method but was gentle with it, was quick and mdd sure i wasn't damaging the adjuster, more tension however i think it might!
The support has been fine till now, just a little more weight on board than usual.
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:08 PM   #8559
warewolf
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Location: Nelson, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty3 View Post
I've looked over the index section on setting up rear suspension but what i can't find is basic stuff.
Yeah, the index is more about stuff specific to the 640. There are other threads and forums that will be more help to you for the basics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty3 View Post
When loaded up, (100kg rider + 20kg luggage) i get a low speed wobble from the front.
Be aware that the standard spring suits ~80 kg rider. Every 10-ish kg you need to go up a spring rate. If the spring isn't right, then the suspension action will be compromised - it's the most important suspension component.

The other two areas to look at in terms of causing weave & wobble are the rear suspension bearings and the steering head bearings. There should be no play in either.
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:10 PM   #8560
bmwktmbill
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Man, if it was me and it wobbled I'd air the rear tire up and drop the air in the front for off road and then jack both the rebound and compression, especially the compression damping on the rear shock.
If it packs up on stutter bumps...lighten things up.

Afer that I'd go after the fork.

I use that to compensate for loaded/unloaded, full gas tank/empty tank.

On an Adventure bike you can easily vary the weight by 75-85 lbs depending on gear and gas.

A Scott's sreering stabilizer ends all the wobble nonsense forever.

Tightening the spring won't make it stiffer, cutting a coil off will.

All you do is raise the height. You are setting the sag.

To adjust the rear rebound lay on your back and look up.
Greasy frikkin mess.

You get to the point where you can set the rear compression up and down while riding depending on the terrain.

You could try raising the fork tubes in the triple clamp and inch.

It's black magic and don't let anyone tell you different.

Oh yah, if the bike feels drunk at low speeds the steerng head bearings are too tight.
Or the front tire didn't bead out.

b
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And high performance=high maintenance.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:29 AM   #8561
supercoyote
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggi'tard View Post
You aren't too far away.. I live in Tellico Plains.. I'll be looking for your blue and black bike...

This is me off a trail near Miller's Cemetery (FS384A?) road a week or two ago...
Nice bike, could you post up a picture of the front end? I like how clean it looks
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:56 PM   #8562
Baggi'tard
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Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Farmhouse Inn, Tellico Plains, TN
Oddometer: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by supercoyote View Post
Nice bike, could you post up a picture of the front end? I like how clean it looks
how about this.


and that..


or?

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Colorado and Utah backcountry, Trans America Trail ride report, June 2013

"Welcome to Tennessee, the patron state of shootin' stuff." Bob Lee Swagger.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:39 PM   #8563
Dirty3
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Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Melbourne SE Burbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
Man, if it was me and it wobbled I'd air the rear tire up and drop the air in the front for off road and then jack both the rebound and compression, especially the compression damping on the rear shock.
If it packs up on stutter bumps...lighten things up.

Afer that I'd go after the fork.

I use that to compensate for loaded/unloaded, full gas tank/empty tank.

On an Adventure bike you can easily vary the weight by 75-85 lbs depending on gear and gas.
Cheers Bill.

I ended up setting the pre-load the right way! It took a little longer than loosening it, but was way better. After a little more air in the rear and front, the wobble was hardly noticeable, plus I lightened my load and redistributed the weight more forward rather than up high on top of rear carrier rack.
So I strapped my tent right behind my backside (did allow for a bit of a back rest too, so was reasonably comfortable) before it was up higher over rear tyre, so probably the position helped too. I will look at springs for future travel but also will be eventually getting side panner racks for bags, so once this is done will assess further. Thanks everyone for the advice.

Neil.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:56 PM   #8564
bmwktmbill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty3 View Post
Cheers Bill.

I ended up setting the pre-load the right way! It took a little longer than loosening it, but was way better. After a little more air in the rear and front, the wobble was hardly noticeable, plus I lightened my load and redistributed the weight more forward rather than up high on top of rear carrier rack.
So I strapped my tent right behind my backside (did allow for a bit of a back rest too, so was reasonably comfortable) before it was up higher over rear tyre, so probably the position helped too. I will look at springs for future travel but also will be eventually getting side panner racks for bags, so once this is done will assess further. Thanks everyone for the advice.

Neil.
Glad for you Neil.
Don't be scared of the clickers on the fork and the shock, the book setting are just a place to start.

Often bikes are set up with the fork too stiff and the shock too soft.

Just remember the wheel has to follow the bump in two directions.
Compression lets the wheel compress into the bottom/exit wall of the bump and rebound lets it return to full length after it gets compressed by the hit.

There is only one way to get things set correctly and that is to ride the bike on some stutter bumps and whoops with 3/4 tank of fuel.

You need a little pad to write yourself notes changing on thing at a time.

Some people can bounce the back end and get it close but the front needs to be test ridden.

Move compression to full soft and put rebound in the middle and set the compression, then set the rebound full soft and find the sweet spot stiffening it, this will work front and rear.

When you get fully loaded increase the compression in the rear because it's easy to do, back it down unloaded.

You can set the sag in the fork and KTM make some external adjustment caps as an accessory, or at least they did.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ktm-Husabe...-/161010892050

We fought the suspension wars years ago. There are old posts lost in the fog maybe unless they got pinned.

There's more like fork oil height and fork oil viscosity but I probably already wrote too much.

Before you do anything ride it for a month and adjust the air pressure, don't be afraid to go soft if riding off road

bill
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'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:05 AM   #8565
warewolf
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Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Oddometer: 2,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
Often bikes are set up with the fork too stiff and the shock too soft.
Spring-wise it's the opposite, especially for KTM who use ex-world GP riders as testers. This is for two reasons:
  • It feels better for round-the-block test rides.
  • Aggressive expert riders who are always on the throttle prefer a soft fork spring because the front floats under power, and they want a strong rear to support the rearward weight bias and power transfer forces.
To get the sag numbers correct on my 640 Adv - I'm at their design weight - I've had to go up a rate at the front and down a rate at the rear. Just getting that springing correct has massively improved the suspension action - to the point that now I'm in no hurry to get it re-valved. Stiffening the fork spring has made the front end both much more supple on the small bumps ('cos the spring isn't over-preloaded) and strong enough to soak up the big hits without blowing through the stroke and spiking the damping. The softened rear is gentler on the body, and keeps the wheel on the ground to maintain traction noticeably better.

Suspension is more science than art - you can get it pretty good by following the common/ideal rules, but getting it perfect is art!

Generally you should set the rebound first as it has an effect on compression as well. Dial in one end, then the other - the feel from the other end will change even though you are only adjusting one end.

I've dialed in the damping as follows:
  • start at the factory settings as baseline (or something reasonable/recommended for custom suspension) and ride a short test loop
  • start with rebound.
  • go 6 clicks faster, test
  • go back to baseline then 6 clicks slower, test
  • go back to baseline then 2 clicks faster or slower whichever felt better, test
  • if it feels better than the baseline, go another 2 clicks, test
  • repeat until it feels worse than the previous setting
  • go back 1 click and you're done.
  • Repeat for compression.

Beware that going 6 clicks will ruin the the bike's handling, so don't test at 10 tenths. This method simultaneously dials it in and teaches you what it feels like in each of the four 'error' conditions.

I've found if you dial this in off-road, the damping will be too fast/loose for on-road. It's ok to have two sets of settings.

Once you start dialing in suspension, it never stops, you are never satisfied, you never stop learning about it, and you become a better rider through being more aware of what your machine is doing.
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Colin
KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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