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Old 06-18-2008, 01:00 PM   #76
Yossarian™
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller
I think most Ducati purchasers are getting *exactly* what they seek. As others have said, it can't all be quantified on a spec sheet.
+1

It's tough to put it on paper. I love the sound. The looks. The "feel". That I'm not riding something I'll see on every street corner. Etc., etc.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:03 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
"perceived value" says it all. if the perceived value is unduly influenced by marketing hype...and not specific and quantifiable...then it's suspect, in my opinion.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.

However, there are many things that aren't easily quantifiable.

How happy does your GSX-R make you? Two happy? Three happy? There's no scale upon which you put the bike and measure what it brings you in terms of overall enjoyment. You know, though, what you get from it in the way of personal reward.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:06 PM   #78
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Sounds like buyer's remorse to me, trying to justify the purchase of your Gixxer instead of the 848 you -really- wanted?
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:41 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
yes, i understand what you're getting at Bueller.

i'll cop to the supply/demand point you make...but mark it as irrelevant straw-man...people aren't buying ducs and paying more because there aren't many...they're handmade by artists who painstakingly assemble (less than perfect) machines....blah blah blah. does it break more? yes. does it go slower...yes. why pay more?

"perceived value" says it all. if the perceived value is unduly influenced by marketing hype...and not specific and quantifiable...then it's suspect, in my opinion.

abe
And you are entitled to that opinion, but I don't think you are providing a fair assessment. It isn't all marketing hype. For many it is a more visceral feel - something that isn't specific and quantifiable, but can still be quite real. While I don't subscribe to Ducati lust for the most part, I completely understand the motivation to buy one based on my experience with a Moto-Guzzi Le Mans in 2002. It was expensive, moderately powered, not particularly comfortable, and had mediocre handling and general performance. Compared to most modern Asian bikes it wasn't a blip on the radar screen. It was also broken constantly and was ultimately bought back after a long court battle - the most heartach of any ownership experience out of the 50 bikes I've owned. But no motorcycle before or after it left such an indellible impression. That bike was just plain fun every time I twisted the throttle and wound it up. The sound, the feel, everything about it just made me want to ride it. If you've never experienced that you are missing a large part of motorcycling.

My recommendation would be that you spend some time on one - not just a test ride, but some real time - and then decide. And if it doesn't do that for you, maybe something else will. When you find it you'll know it. And once you have there won't be any need for discussion.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:56 PM   #80
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ducati, to me, is becoming the harley davidson of sportbikes.

it's ALL about the sex appeal...not the ability.

they can keep having their trendy nightclub soirees with sexy umbrella girls and top shelf vodka...but people who actually ride their motorcycles can spot the weaknesses....they show up on the straights, in the repair bay, and deep in the corners.

it's no wonder i never see dirty ducatis.

abe
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:07 PM   #81
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:29 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweaver
..... but having come off a 4-cyl supersport (ZX9R) on to a V-twin (950 ADV), I can say that I much prefer the power delivery of the twin. Much smoother and easier to control, not the on-off hit of the 4......

G
If you had a ZX-9r that had an on-off hit it needed some serious shop time. Turhing the trotle on MY ZX-9 was like turning on to the face of a giant wave on a surf board. THe power just welled up under me, lifted me and pushed me forward with a rolling fluidity that I never felt on my V-Twins.

I had a GSXR750. It was a lot smaller and lighte than the ZX-9 and was almost as comfortable after I fitted Heli-bars, with absalutely NO apreciable change to road handling maners.

Oh: and a GSXR is in no wat shape or form a UJM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #83
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I can't believe I just read (more or less) all six pages of this thread...I think my head is gonna 'splode...

After careful consideration of the merits of said Gixxer against...well - the rest of the world, I guess - I have come to the conclusion that:



Aren't random attempts to instigate arguments typically only supposed to be in JM?
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:30 PM   #84
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UJM, from wiki:

The term is neutral (neither complementary nor pejorative) and highlights a bike's strong similarity to other bikes -- rather than exclusivity, brand pretence or distinctive character.

i think the gixxer fits.

maybe i shoulda compared the 848 to the GSX-R600...probably a better comparo.

abe
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:33 PM   #85
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i remember those zx-9s....big heavy and fast...still something luxurious about their weightiness...wide tank and bars added to the sensation that u were on a BIG bike.

abe
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:16 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
it's no wonder i never see dirty ducatis.

abe
you haven't seen my st4s then

why do i have it instead of the honda st1300/concours/sprint/bmw rt?

more character, more fun to ride.

oh- wait, i have the rt also - down on power etc, up on price
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:24 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
yes, i understand what you're getting at Bueller.

i'll cop to the supply/demand point you make...but mark it as irrelevant straw-man...people aren't buying ducs and paying more because there aren't many...they're handmade by artists who painstakingly assemble (less than perfect) machines....blah blah blah.
no one said they had to be hand made to be fewer of them but I do think Bueller is right that people buy them to not look like every other no talent assclown squid on his GXR.

Quote:
does it break more? yes.
while this is possible i think it may be too early to throw the new 848 in with the ducs of old.
Quote:
does it go slower...yes.
does it matter on the street? the vast majority of these (ducs & gxrs alike) will never see the track
Quote:
why pay more?
because thats what they cost. ducati doesn't produce enough to get their price any lower.

Quote:
"perceived value" says it all. if the perceived value is unduly influenced by marketing hype...and not specific and quantifiable...then it's suspect, in my opinion.
its "preference" not "perceived value". by your logic there should only be one model sports car available, one station wagon, one SUV, one pickup, one brand of razor, one brand of toilet paper, etc... what a crappy world that would be. have you ridden both? I have and if i were to buy one, it would be the duc.
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:25 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
ducati, to me, is becoming the harley davidson of sportbikes.

it's ALL about the sex appeal...not the ability.

they can keep having their trendy nightclub soirees with sexy umbrella girls and top shelf vodka...but people who actually ride their motorcycles can spot the weaknesses....they show up on the straights, in the repair bay, and deep in the corners.

it's no wonder i never see dirty ducatis.

abe
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:33 AM   #89
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Performance-wise, they will cancel themselves out of the equation, leaving only the rider, his skill, and his willingness to go fast as the factors that contribute to a lap time. Anyone who disagrees needs to spend more time on two weels and less time reading magazines.

So, I'd choose the Ducati if I wanted to own a beautiful sportbike to cherish for years and keep nice. I would buy the GSXR to beat on, then sell it when I'm done. Its nice that we have both to choose from.
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:34 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
ducati, to me, is becoming the harley davidson of sportbikes.

it's ALL about the sex appeal...not the ability.

they can keep having their trendy nightclub soirees with sexy umbrella girls and top shelf vodka...but people who actually ride their motorcycles can spot the weaknesses....they show up on the straights, in the repair bay, and deep in the corners.

it's no wonder i never see dirty ducatis.

abe
Come on, now you're just posting pure troll bait. I can't even remember the last time Ducati offered a bike that outperformed a Japanese bike on paper. As I said before, avoid track days at all costs.

Have you really never ridden a v-twin? Is there any motorcycle on the planet that you like for something other than the appliance factor?
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