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Old 01-18-2015, 11:59 AM   #1
Apebrains OP
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Bluhduh Help getting this girl's fat arshe back together...

Sigh, alright, I've lurked for years without requiring direct help, I guess it's finally time to come out of the shadows and monkey it up.

Hi guys.

Done plenty of work on my little 650GS single in the past, but this has been one of those fun little projects that taken way too much time for how stupid simple a job it should have been, so I was hoping you guys could give me just a little quick help.

Back story; 2009 F800GS. LOVE IT. Ridiculous fun bike. Problem? Riding down the highway a few days ago and started feeling like I was running grooves in the pavement. Just an uncomfortably little wobble that was juuuust enough to be a little unnerving since I knew the pavement was smooth. For the last few days I had heard a little sound in the back end that I couldn't ID, so this obviously connected two dots and caught my attention. Anyway, got to where I was going by taking it easy, and a friend and I chatted about what could be up. Clunking in the back started getting louder, and we noticed that the wheel was moving a tad in the swingarm, laterally. He mentioned something about wheel bearings, and that infamous thread on here from Tmex suddenly sprung to mind, and all the pieces fell into place in my mind. So rather than risking a graceful sail through the air, followed by contact with pavement and a long unceremonious skid, I had it trailered home. Thanks Progressive.

I had just recently clicked over to 17000 miles. Think I'm the third owner. In any event, it had thus far been problem free for me, and has an extended warranty, but I figured bearings were something I could handle.

WOW.

Got the thing apart and looked at that disk side bearing, and it was seconds from total disintegration; obviously destroyed, with shavings all over in there. I called Woody up, and Chris there said, yeah, that was a problem that used to happen, I should check at a machine shop, as there's a good chance at this stage that my hub has been destroyed. Well, I tried to remove the bloody bearing, and HOLY HELL I've never seen anything so stuck in my life. I took it to my local bike shop, and they literally whanged at it for 20 minutes or so with a blow torch, PB, and every damn tool in the book, and it finally came out, LUCKILY in one piece, but shortly there after disintegrated into mere parts. Good news was, there was no damage to the hub (miracle). Bad news is, all of the pieces came clangering out of the innards of that wheel, and I now have no idea in what sequence they should be returned. Which brings me to the perhaps moronically simple crux of my issue here:

How the hell do all of these pieces go back together?? Now before you crucify me for my stupidity, this is really a more specific question...kinda, ha. My spacer that goes around the axle has one end that is grooved around it's circumference, but only on that end. The other end is smooth. Obviously this was by design, so the question I have is, which end goes toward the disc, which toward the sprocket? I can't seem to find any info or picture that would indicate this, and I've now wasted literally hours searching. The BMW fiche does not indicate any grooves at all. I've seen a few pictures of the process here on various threads, but none clearly show this spacer and it's ends. There is one thread, which I can link to momentarily, that shows something that just confused me more; the small thin metal flange spacer is actually on the end of the large axle spacer, whereas the fiche shows that spacer in a different location. Sigh. I'm dyin' here trying to figure out how to put things back together! TOTAL noob problem.

One other thing; the inner spring in one of my seals broke, either during removal or at some point beforehand. I'm guessing I'm going to have to go ahead and order one of those silly little things before I can put all of this back together? Sucks, as this bike is my primary transportation and I have work tomorrow. Luckily I've got backup, but the big ol' beast Cherokee gets like 12-14 mpg, lol.

My cush drive monkey nuts (love that....clearly these parts were named by a 4 year old) are all broken up, but I understand that that's not urgent and I can go ahead and reinstall with those in their current state, but the seals and the install sequence are the only things that have me concerned. I've managed to get 2 out of three bearings in at this point, but wanted to save the last one (the disk side one) until after I got a chance to speak with you guys to have your thoughts, and of course to know which way I put this silly spacer (and other parts) in there. Anybody think that 17000 miles is too soon for a bearing to disintegrate? Admittedly, I don't know what the guys before me did with the bike, so they could have done a fair amount of water crossing, and yes, I do ride frequently in the rain here in sunny FL. I also live beachside, though I do keep the beast garaged. Anybody think I'm going to be one of the ones having to get this wheel machined by Woody?

Looking forward to ANY help at all, so I can get back on the road. It's making me want to cry seeing her all hung up and useless like this!

Thanks so much guys for entertaining this long-ass post, and for any help you may be able to provide. I can of course provide any pictures necessary. Thanks again!

EDIT: Here's the thread to which I was referring that has the picture of the spacer. It looks like that little flanged spacer bit on the end is actually ON the big central spacer, but it doesn't look like that in the BMW parts fiche....ugh, I hate being this confused...you'd think an ape would get used to it...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=994537&page=4 2nd photo down

http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_...550&height=400

Above is the image URL for the BMW fiche that shows the reassembly sequence. I'm not even sure I HAVE all of those parts, lol...this is ridiculous.
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Apebrains screwed with this post 01-18-2015 at 12:12 PM
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:19 PM   #2
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OK well, you gave me a headache.

To sum it up, the bearings are back in the wheel and you want to install the wheel but have 2 spacers you want to install correctly?
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:28 PM   #3
Apebrains OP
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LOL, yeah, I was afraid of that.

To sum it up, I have not YET installed the final disk side bearing, and would like to know the sequence of reinstallation for these dozen and a half friggin' spacers that get stuffed into one wheel. The shop I took it to knocked them out all over the floor when trying to remove that stuck blown bearing, and I didn't get to see how they went in.

Additionally, is there any local place that I could source the seals from, since the spring broke on one of them?

And finally, is there any chance at 17K that I'm one of the people affected by the undersized hub bore?

Hope that kinda clears it up. ;)

Thanks Reaver.
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Old 01-18-2015, 01:02 PM   #4
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This might help for the outer spacers, poor pictures taken with me camera phone. Cant find anything for the inner ones Im afraid.




Why not photograph what youve got and we'll try and identify it?
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Old 01-18-2015, 01:20 PM   #5
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I didn't go away, I was trying to find an answer.

First off, the rest of the world doesn't care about US gas prices. Fix the bike right.

Bearing failure at that mileage is far more common on the restricted bore hubs. The fixed bore (with the circlip) should be .0015" smaller than the bearing for proper crush. That's about .001" per inch of bearing OD. I didn't measure my '09's but am experienced enough to know what it should "feel" like. You'll set yourself up for more failure if tat's wrong.

Take your seals to any bearing store. They'll measure them and know. Didn't find the PN's but my store stocked SKF bearings and double lipped seals.

All the info you need is in this thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...499504&page=34

I know, way too many pages but it's there. I just tried for you and worsened my headache!

It would help if you could post pics but you'd need to figure out how.
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Old 01-18-2015, 02:58 PM   #6
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Thanks guys, actually that picture does help a little bit, at least with the outer ones. I'll take a photo here momentarily, but Reaver, I actually meant the rubber axle "shaft seals" (marked 07 and 27 on the fiche), not the bearing seals. I've already got double sealed 6204's for all 5 bearings (front and back), so that's sorted.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:07 PM   #7
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Bearing seals, axle shaft seals......whatever you want to call them.

The double lipped spring "energizer" fitted things. A good bearing supply place will have them.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:30 PM   #8
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Okeedokes, photo time.

This is pretty much the sequence as I understand it from the fiche. Man I hope someone else in the future is as stupid as I am and actually gleans some assistance from finding this post...

So here's the sequence as I see it:



This area here is where the sprocket carrier goes, which has an extra bearing and circlip in it, so imagine that that's right here:



This little guy is the thin little flange spacer to which I was referring, and I have no idea where it is supposed to go, so at the moment I have it on the central axle spacer, since I saw it on there in a photo on a thread (linked in first post):



This right here is the grooved end of the central axle spacer, and my main question...which way does this go? Right now, it's facing the disc side, for my mock up, but I'm not sure if that's right?



And alternatively, this is the smooth end, which I currently have facing the sprocket side:



This is the axle shaft seal to which I was referring; as you can see the spring is broken, and so I assume thusly that I must replace it and that it won't be safe to install in this condition? If not, a bearing supply store will carry this?




And yes, I ABSOLUTELY have read the Tmex and 2 other bearing failure threads, AND a couple on F800riders...I have literally melted what IQ I had over this issue, which I'm sure is evident by this point, because I didn't want to have to bother you guys with stupidity, but it appears I've exhausted all other options...

Thanks so much again guys!
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Old 01-18-2015, 04:15 PM   #9
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OK, it's looking good.

The long spacer with the flange goes inside the wheel, yes. That flange goes as you have it, on the disc side. The disc side bearing, circlip and seal go on the wheel first. Freeze bearing, heat hub to do this.

Then you install the long spacer from the other side. The flange helps keep the spacer centred on the disc side while you install the sprocket side bearing. Otherwise it may go diagonal. That's all. The sprocket side spacer will go in looser (easier) as it kinda floats. Tightening the axle will seat all of the bits correctly on the final wheel install.

Yes, the axle seal is common to many applications so a bearing supply place or any Powersports Dealer should carry them. They just measure OD, ID and thickness. A double lip is standard and the best but I've used single lip in the past, not crossing many rivers here.
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Old 01-18-2015, 05:05 PM   #10
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I was looking at the bike behind you in the photos and something didnt seem right, then I sussed it, you taken these photos in a mirror?
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:03 PM   #11
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Alright, good to know that I've at least got the right idea. I guess what I'll do is just reassemble and then check periodically and if I eat bearings again anytime soon, it'll be time to place the ol' call to Woody again.

And Saltbox, no I shot it with my computer whilst typing to you guys and evidently it mirrored it on that basis. Notice how in a later shot the 800 was magically transformed into a 250?

Unfortunately I've called every single place within an hour and a half of me (seriously EVERY place I could find, including TWO BMW dealers) and not a SINGLE ONE of them carried that damn axle seal. SO, unfortunately it looks like she's going to be hung up all week while I wait for A&S to deliver them to me at the tune of 16 bucks A PIECE. Ugh. Honestly. Ridiculous.

Thanks guys again for your help. You's da shee-it.
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Old 01-19-2015, 02:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apebrains View Post
Alright, good to know that I've at least got the right idea. I guess what I'll do is just reassemble and then check periodically and if I eat bearings again anytime soon, it'll be time to place the ol' call to Woody again.

And Saltbox, no I shot it with my computer whilst typing to you guys and evidently it mirrored it on that basis. Notice how in a later shot the 800 was magically transformed into a 250?

Unfortunately I've called every single place within an hour and a half of me (seriously EVERY place I could find, including TWO BMW dealers) and not a SINGLE ONE of them carried that damn axle seal. SO, unfortunately it looks like she's going to be hung up all week while I wait for A&S to deliver them to me at the tune of 16 bucks A PIECE. Ugh. Honestly. Ridiculous.

Thanks guys again for your help. You's da shee-it.
It's a standard seal. Did you call your bearings shop to ask them if they have a SKF shaft seal that's 30ID, 47OD and 7mm? Let me look up the parts db to see which size you want.

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Old 01-20-2015, 05:19 AM   #13
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forget it. send it all to Woody's, sit back and relax until it returns in the mail.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathmenon View Post
It's a standard seal. Did you call your bearings shop to ask them if they have a SKF shaft seal that's 30ID, 47OD and 7mm? Let me look up the parts db to see which size you want.
OMFG YOU ARE KIDDING ME!!! First, Sarathmenon, I sure did, at like 4 bearing supply stores, 2 BMW bike dealers, 1 Honda dealer, 1 bike shop, and 3 auto parts stores or something ludicrous like that, then I finally just said screw it yesterday and ordered from A&S. And now, I just got an email from them saying IT'S OUT OF STOCK AND THEY HAVE TO ORDER IT FROM BMW!!!

Are you kidding me??? This just shouldn't be that tough of a piece to get!! I'm about to just but the damn ass back together and ride it anyway! That damn little spring can't possibly do THAT much can it?? I'm not going to go skinny dipping the ol' girl anytime soon. Plus, it's an outer seal, and quick and easy to access when they FINALLY do come in... This is nuts man. I never had to put up with anything stupid like this with the little 650 single. Jeezy Creezy...

Seriously should just send the damn thing to Woody, lol!
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Apebrains View Post
OMFG YOU ARE KIDDING ME!!! First, Sarathmenon, I sure did, at like 4 bearing supply stores, 2 BMW bike dealers, 1 Honda dealer, 1 bike shop, and 3 auto parts stores or something ludicrous like that, then I finally just said screw it yesterday and ordered from A&S. And now, I just got an email from them saying IT'S OUT OF STOCK AND THEY HAVE TO ORDER IT FROM BMW!!!

Are you kidding me??? This just shouldn't be that tough of a piece to get!! I'm about to just but the damn ass back together and ride it anyway! That damn little spring can't possibly do THAT much can it?? I'm not going to go skinny dipping the ol' girl anytime soon. Plus, it's an outer seal, and quick and easy to access when they FINALLY do come in... This is nuts man. I never had to put up with anything stupid like this with the little 650 single. Jeezy Creezy...

Seriously should just send the damn thing to Woody, lol!
Say what you will about all balls, they have the complete rear bearing kit with the seals for much less, on ebay. The SKF part is also available on ebay and a lot of places. I don't know which part of the world you are in, but that is a very common seal, every bearing store I've spoken to had these. You could also try searching the japanese parts fiche, there are plenty of bikes with the same size bearings.
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