ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Face plant
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-05-2008, 03:55 PM   #121
O.C.F.RIDER
Loose nut behind h/bars
 
O.C.F.RIDER's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Hewitt,New Jerseystan, OBAMANATION
Oddometer: 4,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaroness
Make that three bikes. I know of one other bike that it happened to, but the owner claims that it was his fault because he hit a rock too hard. Same kind of failure on his Dakar as sgk3.
My '95 & '96 KTM 300 MXC's, '99 Husaberg, '90 KDX 200 all had leading axle conventional forks and where I ride, all you do is hit rocks hard. This happening is totally unbelievable Sounds like a class action suit may be in order.
See Ya
Chris
__________________
http://www.theshining.info/
KTM 950 Adv. "S"...'06 KTM 525 EXC...
'76 MV Agusta 750 America S...'84 Honda VF1000...
'75 Kawi 900 Z1...'90 Kawi ZX11...'03 Kawi ZRX 1200...'01 VOR 400E
O.C.F.RIDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 01:15 PM   #122
Tollster
Jammer Jay
 
Tollster's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Pennsyltucky
Oddometer: 2,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER
My '95 & '96 KTM 300 MXC's, '99 Husaberg, '90 KDX 200 all had leading axle conventional forks and where I ride, all you do is hit rocks hard. This happening is totally unbelievable Sounds like a class action suit may be in order.
See Ya
Chris
Dude, we all know there ain't rocks in Jerseeee!
__________________
Nothings possible, until its done!
If ya can't afford the fine, take the lead.
Pain is weakness leaving the body!
If you haven't crashed, you're not riding to potential!.
Tollster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2008, 08:39 PM   #123
Reislust
Still alive
 
Reislust's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Pensacola
Oddometer: 106
Wow!

Wow, I have an 01 Dakar thats front end sees a lot of abuse, this is quite disturbing! I wish you guys a fast recovery! I'll keep posted to see what BMW has to say about this if anything...
Reislust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 07:58 AM   #124
Nickywind
CurbJumper
 
Nickywind's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Olalla, WA
Oddometer: 67
F.

Barroness, I'm glad to see you're OK, while simultaneously amazed at how many people have heard of something similar happening to other people. I just got my first bike ever - F650GS, so needless to say my interest is piqued. Just keep us informed on your situation - like so many other people have pointed out, a recall might be necessary. I for one would love to hear what BMW has to say about it - either way.
Nickywind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 07:19 AM   #125
cbxtc6
On my Way...
 
cbxtc6's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Tomahawk Bluff, IL
Oddometer: 864
Just thought I'd add this pic from Giddyupgirl's wreck a few years back.



A dog pulled in front of her on her F650 ('01), and she "had to lay her down", so to speak.
__________________
"What would Modok do?"
cbxtc6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 10:28 AM   #126
kwh
Fat Hairy Git
 
kwh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: SA31, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbxtc6
Just thought I'd add this pic from Giddyupgirl's wreck a few years back.



A dog pulled in front of her on her F650 ('01), and she "had to lay her down", so to speak.

Is that ANOTHER one?

This is quite a horrifying catalogue, isn't it...
__________________
Ken Haylock
Triumph Trophy 1200 [Winter Rat], Triumph Street Triple R & Triumph TT600
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
kwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2008, 09:06 PM   #127
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 50,569
Red,

I was sorry to hear of your accident, and glad you were not more hurt.

I would think you can try a lawsuit, but the odds of winning are not very good. Since the bike was previously wrecked, it would be very easy for BMW to use that as the cause of the "defect".

I am not saying that it is not a real defect, but I know how lawyers and the law works. That there were others, even if fully documented that they all happened just going down the road, wont significantly effect your outcome unless you can prove this has happend just because of a defect and not a wreck. Several of the others labeled with the same "defect" were also wrecked in such a way, either during the accident, or from previous accidents, that it would be very hard to prove.

I hope BMW steps up to the plate, but I would not count on it. Despite the outpouring of sympathy here, if the issues with the FD and EWS were not enough to get BMW forced into a recall on hundreds of R1200GS and other R-bikes, the relatively few of these incidents surely will not.

Good luck with healing, and I hope it all turns out OK for you in the end!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 06:03 AM   #128
kwh
Fat Hairy Git
 
kwh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: SA31, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Red,

I was sorry to hear of your accident, and glad you were not more hurt.

I would think you can try a lawsuit, but the odds of winning are not very good. Since the bike was previously wrecked, it would be very easy for BMW to use that as the cause of the "defect".

I am not saying that it is not a real defect, but I know how lawyers and the law works. That there were others, even if fully documented that they all happened just going down the road, wont significantly effect your outcome unless you can prove this has happend just because of a defect and not a wreck. Several of the others labeled with the same "defect" were also wrecked in such a way, either during the accident, or from previous accidents, that it would be very hard to prove.

I hope BMW steps up to the plate, but I would not count on it. Despite the outpouring of sympathy here, if the issues with the FD and EWS were not enough to get BMW forced into a recall on hundreds of R1200GS and other R-bikes, the relatively few of these incidents surely will not.

Good luck with healing, and I hope it all turns out OK for you in the end!

Jim
Jim, I wouldn't know enough to know whether you were right or wrong about whether BMW can be properly held to account for this, although morally they absolutely should be in my opinion, given that they obviously knew about the issue and redesigned the part to fix it. However, I did take a look at the kind of thing that does trigger NHTSA safety recalls (and the same kind of recalls from VOSA here in the UK) , and you have to think that if (to pick a random example) a fuel filter that may clog on some Harley models (and may cause poor running or non starting, and which could therefore in very remotely conceivable circumstances contribute to an accident if it happened at a critical moment) is enough reason to initiate a full officially sanctioned safety recall for rectification, then faillure-prone front fork castings must surely be a contender. I've seen what prima-facie are the most ridiculous things trigger recalls (along side a smattering of obvious and serious ones of course).

Perhaps I don't understand the criteria used by statutory bodies like VOSA in the UK or the NHTSA for initiating mandatory recalls. What do they need? Do they need the manufacturer to 'fess up' or are they capable of looking at the evidence themselves and holding a manufacturer to account?

I firmly believe that BMW redesigning and strengthening the fork castings before switching production halfway through 2003 is a 'smoking gun'. What other credible explanation could there be for that? What would the paperwork around it show?
__________________
Ken Haylock
Triumph Trophy 1200 [Winter Rat], Triumph Street Triple R & Triumph TT600
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
kwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 06:36 AM   #129
moron
Studly Adventurer
 
moron's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Bentonville
Oddometer: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwh
Perhaps I don't understand the criteria used by statutory bodies like VOSA in the UK or the NHTSA for initiating mandatory recalls. What do they need? Do they need the manufacturer to 'fess up' or are they capable of looking at the evidence themselves and holding a manufacturer to account?
I can't speak for NHTSA at all and only as a pundit who has had some experience working with the CPSC instigating recalls: AIUI the regulatory body ultimately has the authority to mandate a recall.

However, if you notice most consumer product recalls are specifically designated 'voluntary' which means the manufacturer has agreed with the CPSC that action is necessary but they're doing it absent any legal coercion. IME it's very rare that recalls are 'forced'.

It might also be worth pointing out the more public attention happens the more likely a company is to respond: if this kind of thing happened to me and BMW (after I reasonably approached them and made my case, probably including a polite letter from an attorney) balked about making it right I'd give serious consideration to contacting a local television station or newspaper to see if they'd be interested in a 'big bad company knows they are hurting innocent motorcyclists' story.

You'd need to avoid making unsupportable allegations to maintain your credibility but if you handled it properly it might do some good.

Like I said earlier I don't know if this is a 'defect' but it remains my opinion BMW would be foolish not to take care of their customers.

And to respond to another point: that BMW changed the design would likely be handled by saying 'new and improved does not imply old and defective'. Those lawyers are subtle people.
__________________
What you've got to understand is some people enjoy being mocked by their betters.

andre North Kent Coast
moron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 07:35 AM   #130
kwh
Fat Hairy Git
 
kwh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: SA31, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg
And to respond to another point: that BMW changed the design would likely be handled by saying 'new and improved does not imply old and defective'. Those lawyers are subtle people.
Lawyers? Subtle?

I wonder what the BMW Motorrad internal paper trail surrounding those design changes might reveal? I'm guessing that it would be nothing that they'd want the world to read, but... well, that might just be my unreasonable cynicism at work!
__________________
Ken Haylock
Triumph Trophy 1200 [Winter Rat], Triumph Street Triple R & Triumph TT600
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
kwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 08:01 AM   #131
moron
Studly Adventurer
 
moron's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Bentonville
Oddometer: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwh
I wonder what the BMW Motorrad internal paper trail surrounding those design changes might reveal? I'm guessing that it would be nothing that they'd want the world to read, but... well, that might just be my unreasonable cynicism at work!
If they're on top of things there won't be any documented mention of a potential design weakness: certain things are only talked about around the office water cooler...

I reckon the rationale would be something like 'We want to improve riding satisfaction'.

And the only thing that's unreasonable is not to be cynical.
__________________
What you've got to understand is some people enjoy being mocked by their betters.

andre North Kent Coast

moron screwed with this post 09-12-2008 at 08:47 AM
moron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 08:56 AM   #132
kwh
Fat Hairy Git
 
kwh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: SA31, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg
If they're on top of things there won't be any documented mention of a potential design weakness: certain things are only talked about around the office water cooler...

I reckon it the rationale would be something like 'We want to improve riding satisfaction'.

And the only thing that's unreasonable is not to be cynical.
It appears that you are even more cynical than me ...

Or if you are right about that...

Here's the current VOSA recall list for the BMW F-series... it doesn't seem like it's a 1 for 1 match with the NHTSA recall list, though...

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/rec...&Search=Search
__________________
Ken Haylock
Triumph Trophy 1200 [Winter Rat], Triumph Street Triple R & Triumph TT600
http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh
kwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 09:31 AM   #133
moron
Studly Adventurer
 
moron's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Bentonville
Oddometer: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwh
it doesn't seem like it's a 1 for 1 match with the NHTSA recall list, though...
Demonstrating the subjectivity of defining 'defect' or merely a lack of international communication? I know jack squat about how other countries handle these things...
__________________
What you've got to understand is some people enjoy being mocked by their betters.

andre North Kent Coast
moron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 09:11 PM   #134
LostInTheDirt
Adventure Addict
 
LostInTheDirt's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: East of 5, West of everywhere
Oddometer: 11
Cry Common Link

sgk3,
Very sorry to hear about the wreck up in AB. Are you still stuck there? I remember our conversation in North Dakota very clearly. Thank you for the tips on riding through the rest of North Dakota, the wind was so strong that it almost pulled me off of the bike! Twice!
Kind of scary to think that I ran into both you and Red shortly before your respective forks disintegrated. If I am the jinx in this I sincerely apologize.
In hindsight, you are totally right, I am very happy that the wife and her 650 didn't join me on the trip. She has reluctantly agreed to stay off of her 650 until I figure out exactly when hers was manufactured and when exactly in 03 did BMW make the change. Does anyone have a side by side pic of the "old" fork and the "newly redisgned" fork?

For everyone else, quick tip I learned from my 4000 mile trip from Seattle, WA to Buffalo, NY and then on to Chicago, where there were many areas with no cell coverage, I avoided highways:
I traveled with a SPOT satellite messenger, little orange device that can send a text message and/or email to contacts (that you set up ahead of time) for "I'm OK, just checking in" or a HELP message (I set mine up with,"Need Mechanical assist please call AAA for me) or if you are in need of medical there is a 911 button that will send a rescue team for you. And since its a GPS tracker they know exactly where you are. My family was able to track my progress all the way across. It was nice to know that if I needed it and couldn't get a cell phone call out that I could still get help if I needed it. Also comes in handy for an excuse to get WAY off the beaten path, as in "Don't worry if I need help I can get it, so lets go get lost!"
Find everything else out at www.findmespot.com.
sgk3 - props for getting the bike up - I've dislocated both shoulders and from someone who knows that level of pain -- Kudos!
LostInTheDirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2008, 10:14 PM   #135
Benesesso
Beastly Adventurer
 
Benesesso's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: West of Phoenix, Arizona
Oddometer: 9,898

>"Most importantly, I'd like to be able to add further proof to BMW that there is a serious defect that need to be addressed."<

My first post here. All of the broken pieces should be rounded up and sent/taken to a good metallurgical lab. Probably too late, but do not let the broken surfaces touch (or be touched by) anything hard. These fork failures are probably fatigue cracks, and aluminum retains the evidence very well. The lab. will use a scanning electron microscope (SEM) on the fractured surfaces, and probably be able to find the origin of the crack. They will also be able to see where the sudden, final fracture started (the surfaces will look completely different in the SEM). The will probably be able to find any evidence of damage caused by a previous accident. If the fatigue crack started at a point with no previous sudden cracking, they should be able to state in their report that in their opinion, any previous accident did NOT cause the subsequent development of the fatigue crack.

The next step would be for your lawyer to find out if BMW was aware of all this, and how many forks have cracked.
Benesesso is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014