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Old 07-26-2010, 07:39 AM   #16
ONandOFF
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Ratman! You rule
Thanks for the big job of documenting the results of your many hours of tinkering, for the benefit of the rest of us!
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:14 PM   #17
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Macgyver ain't got shit on you, friend!
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:23 AM   #18
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New shock rebuilder

Here's another guy, Gary Leventhal out of Socal who did a nice video of rebuilding a VF750F '84 Honda Interceptor shock Showa air over rear Shock.
This shock is very similar to the Sabre shock of the V65 Sabre. The main differences are that the Dia is smaller, and the part that he welded in is thinner than on the V65 so it doesn't lend itself to the set screws that put the V65 Sabre back together. The big shock takes 16 oz of fluid and the smaller shock take 13 oz.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1061657...MShockRebuild#
Gary could be reached at "Gary Leventhal"
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:41 AM   #19
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Soffening the Showa Air-over shock

I'm still working on The rear shock from my Sabre....
I changed out my rear shock on my V65 Sabre yesterday....

I've previously been under the delusion
that I could make a Sabre Shock alteration that would make the Sabre
more comfortable (Less harsh on the small bumps). The big problem is that at hwy speed the little
1/2" surface variation smack you in the ass.

Now anyone can take that for a while, but get on an old concrete
freeway and it's hour after hour of smack, smack, smack....etc. It
often requires a kidney belt to strengthen you lower back and kidney
area.

I reasoned that getting the shock moving was what was causing the
initial smack. I tried like 20 or more different shock valvings some
12 or more years ago. Nothing I did at the time made me happy.

Well, move on to present with me pondering WTF all that time. It made sense
to me that the shock doesn't need much damping for that first 1/2" of
travel like you find on a freeway. Of course in the bigger wheel
movement of 3 or 4 inches, when the spring is deflected quite a lot, is
when you need the shock to be fairly stiff to keep you on the ground.

In other word, I needed a variable rate shock absorber. Extremely soft where the bike rides most of the time, then much stiffer when the wheel moves farther from bigger bumps.

To that end I Rebuilt a seized up extra shock that I had, and I ground some bypass grooves in the shock can where the
piston rides most of the time. That was why I changed out the shock
this morning....to try out my new Idea.

I just tested it on 10 mile of my nearby freeway, I-5 near SD Ca. I was
pleased with the result. I am certainly going in the right direction
now VS my changes years ago.

I'm not saying this makes my motorcycle faster in the twisties. I
don't care about that. .....but for cruising and trips I think I'll
be a much happier camper from now on.

You know those manhole covers that you like to avoid.....well, I
can hardly feel them now (except for the front end).
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:28 PM   #20
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I enjoyed your rebuild even though its unlikely it will ever aply to anything I own

I'm wondering if ADV members should start a fund to build you a workbench, and maybe buy you some shoes
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:44 AM   #21
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My hat's off to you Sir!
Did you work out the trailer brakes?

The little Inspector General was keeping an eye on you. (in the photo file)
Hope she has grown well in these last few years.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:25 AM   #22
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not many will ever need this.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDan View Post
I enjoyed your rebuild even though its unlikely it will ever aply to anything I own

I'm wondering if ADV members should start a fund to build you a workbench, and maybe buy you some shoes
Yeah, prolly not many will, Dan, but I want to put the info down somewhere that will be public.
I got an email from a guy in Europe who was putting an '80 750 twin (a model that we don't get in the USA) back together and he wanted me to rebuild the air, showa shock. I told him to find a mech that would use my instructions for the repair. So It's guys like that that may use the info.

Before I went condo, I had a big shop with welders, lathes, mills, and the whole magilla...even a work bench. The bench was always full of old project messes, and I ended up working on the floor....nothing changes with me.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
My hat's off to you Sir!
Did you work out the trailer brakes?
Yes, I did....surge brake attached to the trailer tongue made from a fork tube and slider that actuates a front MC master cylinder which operates a rear brake caliper on each trailer wheel.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:27 PM   #24
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test ride

I took the bike on a 120 mile test ride today. 80 miles of choppy Freeway at 70 to 80, 20 miles of fast curvy road, and 20 miles of tight twisties.

Pretty happy with my shock. If I had it to do over, I'd try a little different inside grind. I accomplished the goal of making my Sabre much more comfortable. The harshness on small bumps is gone. I can barely feel little 1/2 in bumps on the freeway.

I'll ride this one a long while before I bother to try a change. Might not ever change it as it's a lot of work.

Before the change I'd go about 40 miles on the freeway, and the muscles that hold my back straight would begin to ache, and I'd be looking for a back rest. None of that today.

I took 54 to I-8 then 67 to Dye near Ramona then did the twisties on Highland down to I-15 and then home on the freeway. It handles a little different in the twisties, but not bad.

There is just a hint of not enough shock on some of the medium bumps/dips. I'm sure I'll get used to it. There's always a trade off. It's less of a canyon carver and more of a cruiser. That's what I wanted.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #25
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What a GREAT idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

To that end I Rebuilt a seized up extra shock that I had, and I ground some bypass grooves in the shock can where the
piston rides most of the time. That was why I changed out the shock
this morning....to try out my new Idea.
Ratman, hi!

Hope you don't mind me asking this, and hopefully I don't sound too naive, but did you grind down a specific spot on the inside wall of the shock to let the shock oil go by when the plunger/piston passes that spot?

It's probably too late, but you wouldn't happen to have photos by any chance?

Thanks, and again, hope that isn't too dumb of a question.

Enjoy,


Liz
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsLizVt View Post
Ratman, hi!

Hope you don't mind me asking this, and hopefully I don't sound too naive, but did you grind down a specific spot on the inside wall of the shock to let the shock oil go by when the plunger/piston passes that spot?

It's probably too late, but you wouldn't happen to have photos by any chance?

Thanks, and again, hope that isn't too dumb of a question.

Someone said, "There are no dumb questions, Liz".

I didn't know just where to grind the bypass grooves, so I had to start somewhere.

I wanted the bypass to be in the neutral zone of where the shock rides on flat ground. Ideally the shock runs 1/3 third compressed, so I ground the groove an 1/8 inch before that one third point to 1/4" beyond the piston at that neutral point.

That made a 3/4" long groove. In a shock wall that only has 1 5/8" of total movement.

This will turn out to be a good technique for any bike that is harsh on small bumps. I think I'm onto a shocking breakthrough. Heh he...The pun was intended.

I took the bike on a 120 mile test ride today. 80 miles of choppy Freeway at 70 to 80, 20 miles of fast curvy road, and 20 miles of tight twisties.

Pretty happy with my shock. If I had it to do over, I'd try a little different inside grind. I accomplished the goal of making my Sabre much more comfortable. The harshness on small bumps is gone. I can barely feel little 1/2 in bumps on the freeway.

I'll ride this one a long while before I bother to try a change. Might not ever change it as it's a lot of work.

Before the change I'd go about 40 miles on the freeway, and the muscles that hold my back straight would begin to ache, and I'd be looking for a back rest. None of that today.

I took 54 to I-8 then 67 to Dye near Ramona then did the twisties on Highland down to I-15 and then home on the freeway. It handles a little different in the twisties, but not bad.

There is just a hint of not enough shock on some of the medium bumps/dips. I'm sure I'll get used to it. There's always a trade off. It's less of a canyon carver and more of a cruiser. That's what I wanted.


Sorry, I didn't take pictures.....but if you're ready to do one for your bike....I could draw you a sketch. In fact I will draw a picture. Give me something to do.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:16 PM   #27
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Sketch

Here's the sketch that I promised

From Drop Box


Of course any other shock would have a different dimension from the end of the can where I have 1".

Edited 2/15/14........ I think my earlier groves turned out to provide to much bypass. Now I'm only grooving 1/2" long grooves and doing 6 of them. I use a 1/4" stone and groove till the groove is 1/8" wide.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:26 PM   #28
MsLizVt
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Ratman, hi!

That totally makes sense! Thank you for the explanation. It's pretty much how I had visualized it. Still think it's brilliant.

My interest in shocks partly comes from hearing that a Showa shock for an 1100GS was not rebuildable. From what I heard, they made it sound like the shock was welded together and you couldn't even take them apart. Of course at the same time people would espouse how great the Ohlins are because they can be rebuilt. Well that wasn't good enough for me. I took a Showa apart. The issue isn't whether it can be rebuilt, but just sourcing the various seals.

None the less, I read this thread a long time ago, and loved what you did. As a matter of fact, you inspired me to take that shock apart. Thank you for that! Now I'm loving this little modification you''re doing. Awesome!


Liz


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Someone said, "There are no dumb questions, Liz".

I didn't know just where to grind the bypass grooves, so I had to start somewhere.

I wanted the bypass to be in the neutral zone of where the shock rides on flat ground. Ideally the shock runs 1/3 third compressed, so I ground the groove an 1/8 inch before that one third point to 1/4" beyond the piston at that neutral point.

That made a 3/4" long groove. In a shock wall that only has 1 5/8" of total movement.

This will turn out to be a good technique for any bike that is harsh on small bumps. I think I'm onto a shocking breakthrough. Heh he...The pun was intended.

I took the bike on a 120 mile test ride today. 80 miles of choppy Freeway at 70 to 80, 20 miles of fast curvy road, and 20 miles of tight twisties.

Pretty happy with my shock. If I had it to do over, I'd try a little different inside grind. I accomplished the goal of making my Sabre much more comfortable. The harshness on small bumps is gone. I can barely feel little 1/2 in bumps on the freeway.

I'll ride this one a long while before I bother to try a change. Might not ever change it as it's a lot of work.

Before the change I'd go about 40 miles on the freeway, and the muscles that hold my back straight would begin to ache, and I'd be looking for a back rest. None of that today.

I took 54 to I-8 then 67 to Dye near Ramona then did the twisties on Highland down to I-15 and then home on the freeway. It handles a little different in the twisties, but not bad.

There is just a hint of not enough shock on some of the medium bumps/dips. I'm sure I'll get used to it. There's always a trade off. It's less of a canyon carver and more of a cruiser. That's what I wanted.


Sorry, I didn't take pictures.....but if you're ready to do one for your bike....I could draw you a sketch. In fact I will draw a picture. Give me something to do.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:11 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsLizVt View Post
Ratman, hi!


My interest in shocks partly comes from hearing that a Showa shock for an 1100GS was not rebuildable. ................

None the less, I read this thread a long time ago, and loved what you did. As a matter of fact, you inspired me to take that shock apart. Thank you for that! Now I'm loving this little modification you''re doing. Awesome!
Liz
Good for you. I've rebuilt a pair of spring over Showa rear shocks before. The ones I did were off an '80 Honda Magna. That's another bike that is way to harsh on the small bumps. It was harder to do, but would be worth it to fix this harshness thing.

The Magna Showas, that I rebuilt, also had that plastic top out bumper inside that became dust and plugged up all the valve holes till the shock was seized up.

Never be satisfied with what the factory gives you. Remember they are trying to make a product that fits everybody.....and we certainly aren't like everybody.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:21 PM   #30
Moparmanpete
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Very nice!

This week I'm going to try noodling a new rear tire on my scoot, like your 350. Had a valve stem rip out a few weeks ago, I was only doing 35 but what a wild ride! The bead unseated from the rim so I'm hoping it prevent that and the wild ride, and if I like it I'll do my XL next.

Pete
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