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Old 10-01-2012, 04:29 PM   #3631
spartanman
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Originally Posted by Bryn1203 View Post
I'd like to a do a roll-on comparison between the two bikes 50-100mph. The Uly would probably out gun the MST in some circumstances.
Better put some JATOs on the Uly.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:45 PM   #3632
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Anybody found any information on how the suspension actually works?

I was wondering if they've applied the use of magnetic fluids in the suspension...I believe Audi did (or does?) some years back in the TT. Seems like it would be a more reliable option than trying to adapt stepper motors to standard suspension...or however the Ohlines electronic suspension works. I believe something like magnetic fluids would be more reliable and easier since you eliminate the valving systems required by a single viscosity oil...
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:21 PM   #3633
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Originally Posted by TuonoBiker View Post
Anybody found any information on how the suspension actually works?

I was wondering if they've applied the use of magnetic fluids in the suspension....

There is a tech feature on the 2013 Multi at ashonbikes.com here.

No, they haven't gone for magnetic fluids. Damping is by a single "solenoid valve" at each end (shock and left fork leg), which handles rebound and compression and is entirely computer-controlled. Sensors on the sprung and unsprung masses measure suspension movement and the computer does the rest, adding in a bit of info from brake and throttle circuits.

An excerpt from the ashonbikes piece:

Quote:
The damping valves themselves are nothing like the conventional stacks of shims or tapered screws in conical holes you have in standard suspension. Instead, they're more like a slightly loose fitting piston in a cylinder bore which the oil flows around. The piston is part of the electric solenoid so its position can be changed very quickly by an altered electrical signal, altering the speed with which the oil can flow past it.
For the price of complexity you get a system that, in theory, can act as though it has both more and less travel than it actually has. That is, on rough roads it can run very soft damping, as though there were lots of travel to soak up big hits, until it encounters a big hit, when it can close down the valve quickly enough to prevent bottoming. On smooth roads it can ramp up the damping under braking and acceleration so that the bike doesn't pitch back and forth so much - as though it had less travel than is actually available.

Of course, to really emulate the long-travel and short-travel condition it would have to change spring rate rather than only damping rate, which it can't do. So we'll have to see how it works out in practice.

I love the anti-bottoming feature for rough roads though. Great protection for those pretty wheels if you get off sealed surfaces. It is still not a dirt bike, nor an adventure bike really, but it should give more comfort and peace of mind on the gravel.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:39 PM   #3634
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Thanks, Moronic...appreciate the information.

I would imagine this is similar, if not the same as BMW's new system...just adapted for multi surface instead of the road/track. The anti-bottoming feature is definitely cool. Curious to see how it reviews.

Love the technology these days...although nothing is simple anymore. Then again, someday these systems will be simple.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:09 PM   #3635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuonoBiker View Post

I would imagine this is similar, if not the same as BMW's new system...just adapted for multi surface instead of the road/track. The anti-bottoming feature is definitely cool. Curious to see how it reviews.

Love the technology these days...although nothing is simple anymore. Then again, someday these systems will be simple.
As far as I can establish, the tech and basic componentry is the same on the HP4 but the manufacturer adapts the Sachs software for the application.

The reviews I have seen so far online from the launch are mixed. Reading between the lines, there may be a loss of road feel compared with the previous Ohlins system, Ohlins being the master at providing this. But on the plus side, there is a gain in comfort and in the ability to deal with surface extremities, and also in the stability of the bike when you're pushing things on good roads. Will be interesting when people get their hands on them for more than a day. BTW: stock rear spring rate, which is 85N/mm on the Ohlins bikes, goes to 85-125N/mm progressive wind with the Sachs. Just a touch firmer.

I like your point about the simplicity.

FWIW: long vid below from Ducati, I imagine supplied so that the press corps can cut it into their own reports. Begins with static shots, then goes to ride footage for the 2013 Touring and new Pikes Peak. You can get some sense of the new suspension working. The Pikes Peak offers a lot of shots of the bike ridden off-tarmac - looks like they don't think those forged wheels will be a handicap there.

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Old 10-02-2012, 06:05 AM   #3636
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Any suggestions for pivot levers for a '10 MTS? Looking for both a clutch and brake levers that fold, but don't break the bank. For some reason I find it hard to find reasonable priced acc. for ducati's.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:08 AM   #3637
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Originally Posted by NMEXPAT View Post
Any suggestions for pivot levers for a '10 MTS? Looking for both a clutch and brake levers that fold, but don't break the bank. For some reason I find it hard to find reasonable priced acc. for ducati's.
I found some on e bay when browsing for what I might 'need' when I eventually get to pick my mutly up. Damn the wait is killing me. When I have time I'll try and post a link to them. eBay uk had them and eBay.de also.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:07 AM   #3638
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Originally Posted by NMEXPAT View Post
Any suggestions for pivot levers for a '10 MTS? Looking for both a clutch and brake levers that fold, but don't break the bank. For some reason I find it hard to find reasonable priced acc. for ducati's.
In case, it hasnt been mentioned...you can order the Ducati levers without the footpegs. Still very expensive but not nearly as bad.

I also have the Twisted Throttle (SW motech) adjustable footpegs. I am pretty happy with them. Was hoping that PivotPegs would come out with pegs for the Multi but I dont think they ever did.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:44 AM   #3639
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The Kevin Ash review is pretty good, but he does suggest the system is pretty subtle. He called it "Skyhook", which is the same name used by Maserati for their active suspension option, which I believe is a tradename by Magnetti-Marelli. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't choose to go the route of the magneto-rheological damper, which instead of using servos to physically change the shock valving, they vary the voltage directly applied to the shock damping fluid. This system is faster, has fewer moving parts, and is more seamless in feel. I'm a bit aprehensive about any sort of suspension system that actively changes the feel. When cranked over in a corner I'd rather not have to worry about anything changing.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
There is a tech feature on the 2013 Multi at ashonbikes.com here.

No, they haven't gone for magnetic fluids. Damping is by a single "solenoid valve" at each end (shock and left fork leg), which handles rebound and compression and is entirely computer-controlled. Sensors on the sprung and unsprung masses measure suspension movement and the computer does the rest, adding in a bit of info from brake and throttle circuits.

An excerpt from the ashonbikes piece:



For the price of complexity you get a system that, in theory, can act as though it has both more and less travel than it actually has. That is, on rough roads it can run very soft damping, as though there were lots of travel to soak up big hits, until it encounters a big hit, when it can close down the valve quickly enough to prevent bottoming. On smooth roads it can ramp up the damping under braking and acceleration so that the bike doesn't pitch back and forth so much - as though it had less travel than is actually available.

Of course, to really emulate the long-travel and short-travel condition it would have to change spring rate rather than only damping rate, which it can't do. So we'll have to see how it works out in practice.

I love the anti-bottoming feature for rough roads though. Great protection for those pretty wheels if you get off sealed surfaces. It is still not a dirt bike, nor an adventure bike really, but it should give more comfort and peace of mind on the gravel.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:54 AM   #3640
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Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post
I'm a little disappointed that they didn't choose to go the route of the magneto-rheological damper, which instead of using servos to physically change the shock valving, they vary the voltage directly applied to the shock damping fluid. This system is faster, has fewer moving parts, and is more seamless in feel. I'm a bit aprehensive about any sort of suspension system that actively changes the feel. When cranked over in a corner I'd rather not have to worry about anything changing.
Maybe not available off the shelf (as it is from Sachs) as a plug in to the existing Ducati framework? Sister company Porsche uses that approach; maybe that's the next generation. For as different as the end products are, it is interesting how similar the feature development of the GS and the Multistrada are. I think yours is an interesting question.

So to divert conversation for a minute: what does the community wisdom have to say about somebody who is ready to buy now? Wait three months or try for a deal on existing units? I'm "cursed" with living in an interesting time on this!
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:07 PM   #3641
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Originally Posted by Bryn1203 View Post
I'd like to a do a roll-on comparison between the two bikes 50-100mph. The Uly would probably out gun the MST in some circumstances.
We did that out in Montana in August - like 75mph to whatever. To sum it up, give the Uly an 1125 Rotax and it might be interesting.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:53 PM   #3642
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Originally Posted by mfaoro View Post
In case, it hasnt been mentioned...you can order the Ducati levers without the footpegs. Still very expensive but not nearly as bad.

I also have the Twisted Throttle (SW motech) adjustable footpegs. I am pretty happy with them. Was hoping that PivotPegs would come out with pegs for the Multi but I dont think they ever did.
Sorry if my original post was confusing. I meant handle bar levers. I already have the SW mototech footpegs.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:53 PM   #3643
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Done

Nome of you guys answered my question so I made a decision on my own anyway. Red Touring. Saturday is the scheduled pick up. Better the devil you know? I don't know, but it's plenty of motorcycle just as it sits for me. Film at 11.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:48 AM   #3644
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Nome of you guys answered my question so I made a decision on my own anyway. Red Touring. Saturday is the scheduled pick up. Better the devil you know? I don't know, but it's plenty of motorcycle just as it sits for me. Film at 11.
Sorry to hear no one answered your question....but, if you made a decision already then you made the right one. The new one obviously didn't give you enough reason to wait around until next year so that should have been your answer! Congrats on the purchase you made - hope you scored a great deal on one! Post up some pics!

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Old 10-03-2012, 05:43 AM   #3645
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Originally Posted by Pampero View Post
Nome of you guys answered my question so I made a decision on my own anyway. Red Touring. Saturday is the scheduled pick up. Better the devil you know? I don't know, but it's plenty of motorcycle just as it sits for me. Film at 11.
good choice -- I, of course, have no idea how good or bad the new suspension will be, but the ohlins are fantastic so I don't believe you will ever be wanting. Every time I get on mine after riding my other bikes I'm still amazed at how good the whole package is.
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