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Old 10-03-2012, 08:11 AM   #3646
Josephvman
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The magneto-rheological system was developed in the U.S. by Delphi, and first used on the Cadillac products and Corvette. We started using the system at Ferrari in 2007 with the 599GTB, and now have it on all of our models.

I'm not sure what type of system Porsche uses, but I'd be surprised if it's not the magneto-rheological. One thing I found interesting about the Kevin Ash review was that he said the forks locked when the bike was turned off. This is more a characteristic of the magneto damped systems than mechanically actuated systems. Usually the mechanical systems actuate the servos across the full range of function on start-up, kind of self-test of the system. Maybe the new Multi system resets to a fully firm position when you power down the bike.

I would think any retrofit kit would be prohibitively expensive. If you tend to keep your bikes for a long time (5+ years) I'd probably just buy a 2013. If you rotate through bikes every 2-3 years then you'd be better off finding a deal on a new 2012 or buying a used one. It seems like there are a lot of MTS1200's for sale, and based on my experience with Ducati's, the resale values aren't great and make for good value on the used market.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampero View Post
Maybe not available off the shelf (as it is from Sachs) as a plug in to the existing Ducati framework? Sister company Porsche uses that approach; maybe that's the next generation. For as different as the end products are, it is interesting how similar the feature development of the GS and the Multistrada are. I think yours is an interesting question.

So to divert conversation for a minute: what does the community wisdom have to say about somebody who is ready to buy now? Wait three months or try for a deal on existing units? I'm "cursed" with living in an interesting time on this!
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:09 AM   #3647
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Originally Posted by TuonoBiker View Post
Sorry to hear no one answered your question....but, if you made a decision already then you made the right one. The new one obviously didn't give you enough reason to wait around until next year so that should have been your answer! Congrats on the purchase you made - hope you scored a great deal on one! Post up some pic

Pics forthcoming, not that anyone here has failed to see a red Multistrada before, but as they (sorta') say:
"This is my bike. There are many like it but this one is mine!" As for the deal, if the standard has been $19995 plus freight and prep, then I did quite well. For anybody looking to score a '12 prior to the arrival of the new machines, Ducati is also still offering very cheap money (even better than last month's deal). The rate is low enough that even as a cash buyer, I opted to take their terms. There was a modest penalty in the cost of the bike, but some friendly haggling reduced that to an acceptable difference. A true hard ass could possibly done a few bucks better, but I am not that guy as I'd like to be seen as reasonable in my dealings, and want to be greeted with smiles when I arrive back at the shop.




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Originally Posted by Dave.0 View Post
good choice -- I, of course, have no idea how good or bad the new suspension will be, but the ohlins are fantastic so I don't believe you will ever be wanting. Every time I get on mine after riding my other bikes I'm still amazed at how good the whole package is.
It remains a question in my mind as I suspect that suspension aside, the new version of the motor will fuel and respond a bit better across the full band, and who knows what other niggles they addressed? I thought the brakes were impeccable as is, my first radials but I suppose there is that to factor too, and I didn't do any trail braking to test the rear brake.

The screen, colors and the other stuff don't amount to much for me compared to the discount. Not needing to work it over to get proper fueling ( if such is the case ) seems worth something. The two examples I rode responded well enough but I have to say the full Termignoni bike I rode yesterday, compared to the stocker I rode this weekend, pulled smoother from low turns, suggesting to me that it is possible to improve low speed response over the current stock version, so if they did that, then it could save the hassle later. I'm in no hurry to drop that sort of money on an exhaust system, and won't if it runs well in stock form. That seems like it was made a major priority of the '13.

For my part, the discount, cheap money and the "gotta have it now" factor played heavily on my decision. The wisdom of that will remain to be seen, but I suppose there is always the possibility that the Ohlins feature will come to be viewed as a plus in the future, and I know I am conflicted about that.

But I don't have any real reason to believe that will be the case, and generally, the manufacturers make them better with time, but as this is a slick package as it stands, I'm riding now. That's worth something too.

The anticipation is the best part! I trust reality will match. This is a big deal for me, and a major shift in my buying preferences as well.

Pampero screwed with this post 10-03-2012 at 09:17 AM
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:02 AM   #3648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuonoBiker View Post
Sorry to hear no one answered your question....but, if you made a decision already then you made the right one. The new one obviously didn't give you enough reason to wait around until next year so that should have been your answer! Congrats on the purchase you made - hope you scored a great deal on one! Post up some pics!

Great decision. Im waiting to pick up my new 12 touring S. but in a more lovely colour

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Old 10-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #3649
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Originally Posted by bingbong View Post
Great decision. Im waiting to pick up my new 12 touring S. but in a more lovely colour

She's grand, congratulations and she's indeed a lovely color! For my deal, the colors were limited to red or white, if you can believe that. I'd likely have chosen red anyway for Italian reasons but titanium is very tasty. Color is always hard for me because my wife is the color expert, but if I bring her for the buy, there wouldn't be any color at all. (She approved of red, actually).

Aren't we today's lucky ones?
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:08 PM   #3650
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Congrats on the new bikes, fellas. There will always be the "new bike" to wait for or settle for the current. Things change quick enough that even in 3 to 5 years if you decide to trade in, you'll just find another deal or end up with an even more improved version. It's a win-win. :)

I too fell into the "lack of patience" category. I was holding out to see the new Multi's and BMW GS's, but then the Tuono died and I didn't want to wait anymore....hence a purchase was made. :)

Ride on, fellas - enjoy the bikes!

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Old 10-03-2012, 01:33 PM   #3651
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Originally Posted by Pampero View Post
She's grand, congratulations and she's indeed a lovely color! For my deal, the colors were limited to red or white, if you can believe that. I'd likely have chosen red anyway for Italian reasons but titanium is very tasty. Color is always hard for me because my wife is the color expert, but if I bring her for the buy, there wouldn't be any color at all. (She approved of red, actually).

Aren't we today's lucky ones?
we are indeed lucky. funny I actualy wanted a white one but there isn't any left in the UK. but then there really isn't a bad colour choice at all, they all come in desireable. I'm looking forward to my ride home from the dealer. 500 miles and a 20 hour ferry ride. that'll do for my first ride
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #3652
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Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post

I'm not sure what type of system Porsche uses, but I'd be surprised if it's not the magneto-rheological.
It is.

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Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post

I would think any retrofit kit would be prohibitively expensive. If you tend to keep your bikes for a long time (5+ years) I'd probably just buy a 2013. If you rotate through bikes every 2-3 years then you'd be better off finding a deal on a new 2012 or buying a used one. It seems like there are a lot of MTS1200's for sale, and based on my experience with Ducati's, the resale values aren't great and make for good value on the used market.
If I like it as much as I expect and if we treat each other right, I will probably have it for five years or more, but I never even thought of retrofitting. "It is what it is." I will "subsist" with the Ohlins and be happy to do so. I never really know what will happen with these sorts of buys, but I always hope that I will keep it for the duration. I am starting to see the used 1200s as well, but I'm satisfied to buy a new one and see how it works. I did find that dealers in the area are being aggressive so the price difference between a new and used one, while not insignificant, is less than it was just a few months ago. I don't think the used market has quite caught up yet, but it will if people want to sell their bikes. I was impatient so I sprung for the new '12 and I'm sure it will be a treat and also a few thou less than a '13.. Appreciate your informative post, by the way.

Added thought: I'm no expert when it comes to used Ducati values, but it seems to me that they aren't terribly less value as used bikes than most others, although there is the fear with them, as with some high end cars I could name, that last year's hot machine is just old news accompanied by expensive parts and repairs. Motorcycles conform to market demands of supply and demand and while the MS 1200 in it's first iteration was new and rare on the market, used prices held. Now with new on the horizon, there will be some shifting and motion and more bikes for sale. I expect the same to happen with the last of the oilhead GSs as well. It has been so in the past for them. You buy new, you take the hit and pay for the privilege. It's always been so. The collector market is different, but I didn't buy my bike to collect it, and doubt it would ever be a collectible in any case.

It could be worse. There are very low mile Desmosedicis starting to appear on the secondary market. Look at the prices and if you're of an sensible and capital preservative frame of mind, you'd be very glad you weren't so lucky as to get one. Maybe someday they will be an appreciating asset, but that day is well in the future.

In some ways, modern bikes are very expensive consumables, just like other technology products.

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:35 AM   #3653
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Originally Posted by Pampero View Post

In some ways, modern bikes are very expensive consumables, just like other technology products.
Well said.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:46 AM   #3654
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Originally Posted by TuonoBiker View Post
Congrats on the new bikes, fellas. There will always be the "new bike" to wait for or settle for the current. Things change quick enough that even in 3 to 5 years if you decide to trade in, you'll just find another deal or end up with an even more improved version. It's a win-win. :)

I too fell into the "lack of patience" category. I was holding out to see the new Multi's and BMW GS's, but then the Tuono died and I didn't want to wait anymore....hence a purchase was made. :)

Ride on, fellas - enjoy the bikes!

Thank you, I failed to respond, so will now. Your reply is encouraging in the face of significant doubt as to the wisdom of being impatient! The part that worked for me is that I didn't have to write a check, just pick up the bike and get down to it.
72 easy payments later and it will all be mine What amounts to free money was a big incentive in my decision tree.

I have owned several Aprilias as well by the way, and have one now which will be sharing space with the Duc until it is sold on. I've mentioned that elsewhere. I have a fondness for the Rotax which can be another motor with a lot of character and drive. The Tuono was a bit too sporty for me as the only ride; didn't see touring on it, which I will use the Multi for. I would have liked to try the RSV4 but I knew up front it wasn't suitable to my purpose.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #3655
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Thank you, I failed to respond, so will now. Your reply is encouraging in the face of significant doubt as to the wisdom of being impatient! The part that worked for me is that I didn't have to write a check, just pick up the bike and get down to it.
72 easy payments later and it will all be mine What amounts to free money was a big incentive in my decision tree.

I have owned several Aprilias as well by the way, and have one now which will be sharing space with the Duc until it is sold on. I've mentioned that elsewhere. I have a fondness for the Rotax which can be another motor with a lot of character and drive. The Tuono was a bit too sporty for me as the only ride; didn't see touring on it, which I will use the Multi for. I would have liked to try the RSV4 but I knew up front it wasn't suitable to my purpose.
Sounds like to did good on your deal...I wouldn't worry about your decision one bit. The next edition of the Multi will probably be the one to trade on...the '13 has got some nice upgrades, but the next round will be that much better. I bet by then it'll have cruise control. People say that CC isn't a big deal, but ride a bike once on the slab with CC and you won't want to go back.

Ahhh....the Rotax ...I do miss that Tuono. Simply a phenomenal machine. I toured on it for a couple weekend trips to go scratching around W.VA...we'd ride down to VA - about 220 miles and then the next day run another 350 around VA and W.VA and then then ride home sunday morning. Was a ton of fun. My ECU died and killed ignition to cylinder #2. I rode it 427.0 miles from failure point to home. No lie. Looong trip.

I'd love to find another Aprilia used someday. Not sure I wanna try the V4...I think I'd get in way too much trouble...I'm already up for Reckless Drv in VA right now...that's a whole other story....*sigh*


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Old 10-04-2012, 09:10 PM   #3656
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Sounds like to did good on your deal...I wouldn't worry about your decision one bit. The next edition of the Multi will probably be the one to trade on...the '13 has got some nice upgrades, but the next round will be that much better. I bet by then it'll have cruise control. People say that CC isn't a big deal, but ride a bike once on the slab with CC and you won't want to go back.

Ahhh....the Rotax ...I do miss that Tuono
I had a Falco, heavily breathed on, great fun. Speaking of CC, they are just whooping it up over at the G Spot. Much to celebrate. Pretty dead here on the Multi board. I was one of those cross shoppers but decided I wanted to have some real fun and on the road and didn't need the dirt side. Had an 1150, it was a great bike, but I suspect the new GS will be a pleasant surprise to the nay sayers. I won't even bother to post over there; they are drunk and giddy, but that bike could really develop too.

The BMW guys will (of which I are one) I hope be shocked when Audi's money and influence teams a bit with Ducati's approach. It could be a very powerful event. SO maybe you are right, that the evolutionary step can be missed and the next gen will be the shiz.

I get her tomorrow. All tingly, with thoughts of "what's the best crash bar" dancing around. I jumped on this impulsively, will try to remind myself to be patient with the accessories.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:20 AM   #3657
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I agree with TB as the new '13 having some nice features and improvements (twin spark and suspension, perhaps the abs) but the MTS12st is my superbike first and foremost, touring second. What does that mean? It means that the Ohlins (and their tune-ability) mean that much to me, and the Skyhook suspension seems a bit more touring oriented which is great if that's what you're after. I'm one of those "BMW guys" in that i'm a believer in the brand and more importantly the new GS but I do love the Multi for on-road riding. The question in my mind is how much did the performance gap close between the two with the new GS? We'll soon see I suppose. . The nice thing is that we have choices, and can always trade one in for another, it just requires the resources to do so.

Enjoy your new bike
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:11 AM   #3658
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I had a Falco, heavily breathed on, great fun. Speaking of CC, they are just whooping it up over at the G Spot. Much to celebrate. Pretty dead here on the Multi board. I was one of those cross shoppers but decided I wanted to have some real fun and on the road and didn't need the dirt side. Had an 1150, it was a great bike, but I suspect the new GS will be a pleasant surprise to the nay sayers. I won't even bother to post over there; they are drunk and giddy, but that bike could really develop too.

The BMW guys will (of which I are one) I hope be shocked when Audi's money and influence teams a bit with Ducati's approach. It could be a very powerful event. SO maybe you are right, that the evolutionary step can be missed and the next gen will be the shiz.

I get her tomorrow. All tingly, with thoughts of "what's the best crash bar" dancing around. I jumped on this impulsively, will try to remind myself to be patient with the accessories.
The Falco was a great bike - my first exposure to Aprilia...

Yeah - the GS forum is a hot-bed of activity with much drunken debauchery and swooning going on. lol. Its all good - the GS is old....deserves a true make-over.

Have fun picking up the new bike!! Always a special day...I'm sure each day in between picking up and selling her will be just as good, too. ;)


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I agree with TB as the new '13 having some nice features and improvements (twin spark and suspension, perhaps the abs) but the MTS12st is my superbike first and foremost, touring second. What does that mean? It means that the Ohlins (and their tune-ability) mean that much to me, and the Skyhook suspension seems a bit more touring oriented which is great if that's what you're after. I'm one of those "BMW guys" in that i'm a believer in the brand and more importantly the new GS but I do love the Multi for on-road riding. The question in my mind is how much did the performance gap close between the two with the new GS? We'll soon see I suppose. . The nice thing is that we have choices, and can always trade one in for another, it just requires the resources to do so.

Enjoy your new bike
Yeah, if you appreciate quality suspension, the Ohlins are tough to beat. I spent money to get my Tuono dialed in w/ its Ohlins and what rewards in handling. I too will be curious to see if the gap is closed between MTS and GS. I think it will be to an extent. The MTS handling I think is the larger advantage between the two. Yes the engine is significantly stronger, but the current GS is no real slouch and in the turns can sort of keep up motor-wise (until a straight stretch!) But the superbike geometry on the MTS is such a winner and it shows when you flip flop through the tight stuff.

I will say in the tight corners of Virginia, you really need to pay attention to body position, throttle, braking if you want to extract good handling out of the GSA. I could do it, but it was very purposeful (and a bit of work)......some bikes (like the Tuono) would almost do it for you. I think the MTS is that way a bit....it goes into corners and it sort of just knows how its supposed to handle. That was my exxperience on the 50 miles or so I put on my buddy's.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:41 AM   #3659
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I will say in the tight corners of Virginia, you really need to pay attention to body position, throttle, braking if you want to extract good handling out of the GSA. I could do it, but it was very purposeful (and a bit of work)......some bikes (like the Tuono) would almost do it for you. I think the MTS is that way a bit....it goes into corners and it sort of just knows how its supposed to handle. That was my exxperience on the 50 miles or so I put on my buddy's.
spot on! but only those who have the roads like you and I do (HWY 2/Angeles Crest) and ride like that will understand that statement. it is the main reason that i sold my GS; it just wasn't fun riding it at the extremes whereas the MTS12s instills confidence and feels easy in comparison. what a great road riding bike it is.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:29 AM   #3660
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Yeah, if you appreciate quality suspension, the Ohlins are tough to beat. I spent money to get my Tuono dialed in w/ its Ohlins and what rewards in handling. I too will be curious to see if the gap is closed between MTS and GS. I think it will be to an extent. The MTS handling I think is the larger advantage between the two. Yes the engine is significantly stronger, but the current GS is no real slouch and in the turns can sort of keep up motor-wise (until a straight stretch!) But the superbike geometry on the MTS is such a winner and it shows when you flip flop through the tight stuff.
Now that both Ducati and BMW are using Sachs for their semi-active suspension (I realize the implementation couldn't be more different), it will be very interesting to see how the Sachs compares to the Ohlins in both cases.

As for engine/chassis performance, unless some "magic" was performed on the BMW, I think the MTS will still be the better road/track bike (assuming equal rider skills), but the BMW will be the better bike off-tarmac.

And yes, congrats on your impending GS(A?) Oalvarez. Are you getting the fully loaded version (ESA w/ modes, Cruise, etc)? If so, let's hope BMW has done a thorough job of testing all of these new technologies.....

-SM
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