ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-21-2010, 07:29 AM   #1531
HPSaucy
Gnarly Adventurer
 
HPSaucy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: LA, CA, USA
Oddometer: 291
Hank & Eddie, you seem very defensive of your stock set ups, and curiously unable to believe that something you've never tried could be so much better, or that a company who'se primary business is setting up bikes for all kinds of competition, couldn't improve on the stock set up.

It really doesn't much matter what kind of riding one does, what matters is how the bike feels to a rider. Stock the MM's handling didn't make me want to use the bike the way I wanted to, it never felt right, especially at the front. The result was I rode it pretty cautiously because it didn't feel right. Now it rides and handles incredibly, it is a night and day difference in the feel of the bike.

Now how much difference will that make to the lap times? That I can't answer because it isn't my track bike, but if you look back in the threads here, the first guy who had Racetech set up his MM was going to the track a lot, and he seemed to think it was good for a couple of seconds at Buttonwillow, which is around a two minute a lap venue. (ie: a second a minute.)

However, I'm not interested in speed, I'm interested in the pleasure of plugging into the bike, and it feeling right through the canyons and mountains. The Racetech suspension takes it there, in a big way.

As for your machisomo "I ride faster than you and you're just wasting money." comments, honestly, that is just painfully childish, and not something I expected of either of you. The bible was written by people who believed the world was flat, but that doesn't make it so.
__________________
macfly
MM # 99526
S # 70020
www.HP2.info
HPSaucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 08:16 AM   #1532
RoteEddie
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Fjords of Norway
Oddometer: 521
I really don't feel like the defensive one here. I can beleive your setup is different, but better? Can you be more specific when describing what exactly didn't feel right to you?

For me the MM is one of the most confidence inspiring bikes I've ever ridden. Even more so than my Tuono Factory with it's state of the art Öhlins setup. Enough so to ground pegs and cylinders at the track

When you mention laptimes at a track I hope you are aware of how different the requirements are compared to bumpy backroads which the MM is supposed to thrive?
__________________
14' KTM 500EXC
13' KTM 1190 Adventure
12' Aprilia Tuono V4R APRC
12' KTM 690 Enduro R Evo2
RoteEddie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 09:01 AM   #1533
HPSaucy
Gnarly Adventurer
 
HPSaucy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: LA, CA, USA
Oddometer: 291
Quote:
Can you be more specific when describing what exactly didn't feel right to you?
Yes, the bike never felt planted or settled when leaned over, regardless of speed. Going faster didn't make it feel more stable, it just felt ill at ease at all speeds. I had a couple of other friends ride it, incuding one who is a track day regular and another who is a GS rider, out in the mountains where we ride, and they also confirmed my impression.

That happened at the time that John, the owner here who had Racetech sort out his MM, was posting about their upgrade. I sent the forks to Racetech, and had a stiffer spring put on the rear. The sag was also set to Racetech's spec, and what came back was a completely different bike.

What they actually changed inside the forks I don't know, but the riding experience is night and day, it feels like a completly different bike.
*The bike now turns in telepathically, while before it almost fell in to corners.
*It goes around corners like its on rails, while before it felt skittish and unsure.
*It rides over bumps so much more smoothly, and thus doesn't get upset by our rough roads.

Now one thing that I don't know is if maybe there was actually something wrong with my bike's stock set up which was cured in the rebuild, but Racetech didn't report finding anything broken when they did it. They also nicknamed John's MM the Jackhammer because of how overly harsh they felt the front end was. Certainly my front end is both a lot plusher, and much more confidence inspiring.

For me as I have said before, it was the difference between loving and hating, or keeping and selling the bike.
__________________
macfly
MM # 99526
S # 70020
www.HP2.info
HPSaucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 09:30 AM   #1534
hankgs
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Oddometer: 1,738
HPSaucy

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPSaucy
Hank & Eddie, you seem very defensive of your stock set ups,

As for your machisomo "I ride faster than you and you're just wasting money." comments, honestly, that is just painfully childish, and not something I expected of either of you. The bible was written by people who believed the world was flat, but that doesn't make it so.
HuH?, I never meant to be defensive nor did I state anything about "I ride faster than you and you're just wasting money..."
As a matter of fact, I said it's good for the economy and "it's all good..."
I invite you to get out of the LA basin and Santa Monica Mountains, and come up to Santa Barbara for a lunch and ride...
hankgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 10:29 AM   #1535
HPSaucy
Gnarly Adventurer
 
HPSaucy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: LA, CA, USA
Oddometer: 291
I haven't taken the MM on the 33 yet, I love that circuit going up to Lockwood, maybe once these rains have passed we should plan a day trip.
__________________
macfly
MM # 99526
S # 70020
www.HP2.info
HPSaucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 11:59 AM   #1536
RoteEddie
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Fjords of Norway
Oddometer: 521
Wicked

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPSaucy
Yes, the bike never felt planted or settled when leaned over, regardless of speed. Going faster didn't make it feel more stable, it just felt ill at ease at all speeds. I had a couple of other friends ride it, incuding one who is a track day regular and another who is a GS rider, out in the mountains where we ride, and they also confirmed my impression.

That happened at the time that John, the owner here who had Racetech sort out his MM, was posting about their upgrade. I sent the forks to Racetech, and had a stiffer spring put on the rear. The sag was also set to Racetech's spec, and what came back was a completely different bike.

What they actually changed inside the forks I don't know, but the riding experience is night and day, it feels like a completly different bike.
*The bike now turns in telepathically, while before it almost fell in to corners.
*It goes around corners like its on rails, while before it felt skittish and unsure.
*It rides over bumps so much more smoothly, and thus doesn't get upset by our rough roads.
Your description still sounds very vague. Maybe all you really needed was a stiffer spring. I'm 62 kg + gear and it works well for me. What works for you doesn't nessesarilly work for me. Even if we were the same weight. So maybe you should stop welcoming new MM owners by stating how crap the suspension is.
__________________
14' KTM 500EXC
13' KTM 1190 Adventure
12' Aprilia Tuono V4R APRC
12' KTM 690 Enduro R Evo2
RoteEddie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 12:18 PM   #1537
HPSaucy
Gnarly Adventurer
 
HPSaucy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: LA, CA, USA
Oddometer: 291
Quote:
So maybe you should stop welcoming new MM owners by stating how crap the suspension is.
No, sorry Eddie, it's a free world, and I'll say what I believe to be true. I certainly ain't staying silent when I know what an improvement can be had at very little trouble or expense.

As to weight, I'm 92kgs fully geared & helmeted, and that is pretty much the same as all of the other folks I ride with who had the same feeling about the bike before and after the changes. 65kgs is certainly a lot lighter, and could well explain our different perceptions to what feels good. Sadly geography prevents you trying my set up, but if you decide to escape winter for a moment and come to CA I'll be happy to let you try it.

PS, I didn't say "it's crap" - I said
Quote:
The stock suspension leaves lots of room for improvement, so you'll have fun working on that at the track, and look forward to hearing how your MM upgrades go.
__________________
macfly
MM # 99526
S # 70020
www.HP2.info

HPSaucy screwed with this post 11-21-2010 at 12:33 PM
HPSaucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2010, 07:03 AM   #1538
air-cooled
Gnarly Adventurer
 
air-cooled's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: low lands
Oddometer: 216
it's personal

suspension is personal, well that's mine opinion.

a few years ago there was a item in "top gear" (car programme in england by the bbc) about a renault espace. first thing they did with the espace is setting a fast time on a closed circuit. second thing was to improve the car and then go faster. the first thing they did to "improve" handling was replacing the stock tires and rims by bigger rims and tires. that did not help, lap time was a lot slower. second idea was to replace the brakes and discs and therefore much bigger wheels where needed otherwise the brakes wouldn't fit. you guessed offcourse that did not help the lap time either. then the suspension was replaced by after market items, no good either. last they dismantled the car completely, all chairs, wich are quiet heavy, went out and only after this they finally could improve the original fast time.

the moral is simple, the manufacturer makes a complete product which is a pretty good package and hard to improve without a lot of testing.
but personal feeling of handling can't be put into words or is hard to explain to others.
air-cooled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2010, 10:46 AM   #1539
RoteEddie
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Fjords of Norway
Oddometer: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by air-cooled
suspension is personal, well that's mine opinion.

a few years ago there was a item in "top gear" (car programme in england by the bbc) about a renault espace. first thing they did with the espace is setting a fast time on a closed circuit. second thing was to improve the car and then go faster. the first thing they did to "improve" handling was replacing the stock tires and rims by bigger rims and tires. that did not help, lap time was a lot slower. second idea was to replace the brakes and discs and therefore much bigger wheels where needed otherwise the brakes wouldn't fit. you guessed offcourse that did not help the lap time either. then the suspension was replaced by after market items, no good either. last they dismantled the car completely, all chairs, wich are quiet heavy, went out and only after this they finally could improve the original fast time.

the moral is simple, the manufacturer makes a complete product which is a pretty good package and hard to improve without a lot of testing.
but personal feeling of handling can't be put into words or is hard to explain to others.
Correct! And BMW are one of the best manufacturers in this regard.

If you wanted a MM to excel on a normal race track the suspension would need a very different setup as there would be no need for the long travel. Fitting race tires like Metzeler Interact K3 would compress the soft springs in the corner so much that ground clearance would be seriously compromised. Braking could also be hugely improved by a stiffer front spring. Combine this with some Brembo monobloc setup and I could probably gain 5 seconds a lap on Rudskogen compared to my standard PP2CT equipped Megamoto.

These changes would of course make the MM a completely different bike and too stiff to be fun on the road.
__________________
14' KTM 500EXC
13' KTM 1190 Adventure
12' Aprilia Tuono V4R APRC
12' KTM 690 Enduro R Evo2
RoteEddie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2010, 12:33 PM   #1540
GSMarc
Studly Adventurer
 
GSMarc's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Oddometer: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by HPSaucy
PS, I didn't say "it's crap" - I said The stock suspension leaves lots of room for improvement, so you'll have fun working on that at the track, and look forward to hearing how your MM upgrades go.
I completely agree with HPSaucy. I had a lot to do to cure the wobble of the front.
I even bought a steering damper but I couldn't imagine I was alone with this problem.

I will not exactly say 'improvement' but tuning.

Finally, I screw down 1 lap the rear spring preload and all went just fine (I was 105 kg all equiped (230 lbs))

Now, I have taken off the damper, no more need for it.

I practiced some "race" lessons since that and all is good, no problems any more.
__________________
GSMarc from BELGIUM
2014 KTM EXC450 6Days
2008 HP2/MM ABS
2005 HP2E
2005 HP2E SM Prototype
GSMarc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2010, 12:42 PM   #1541
rocketron
Megamoto/990 SMR
 
rocketron's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: uk
Oddometer: 27
Suspension - Newbee

My new to me HP2 Megamoto was delivered today.

The ride height is set on the lowest settings and the rear preload looks quite high, previous owner was presumably a heavy short arse git.

I am 6'4'' and an athletic (ha ha) 17 stone (238 lb, 108 kg), i.e. a heavy lanky git. I do not intend to carry a pillion.

I reckon that I need to put the ride height back to the high setting (BMW's recommendation) and will probably need to keep the preload high??

I do not have a clue on the other suspension settings, any recommendations would be gratefully received.
rocketron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2010, 01:14 PM   #1542
RoteEddie
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Fjords of Norway
Oddometer: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketron
My new to me HP2 Megamoto was delivered today.

The ride height is set on the lowest settings and the rear preload looks quite high, previous owner was presumably a heavy short arse git.

I am 6'4'' and an athletic (ha ha) 17 stone (238 lb, 108 kg), i.e. a heavy lanky git. I do not intend to carry a pillion.

I reckon that I need to put the ride height back to the high setting (BMW's recommendation) and will probably need to keep the preload high??

I do not have a clue on the other suspension settings, any recommendations would be gratefully received.
You need a stiffer spring in the rear. Front also, but start with the rear.
__________________
14' KTM 500EXC
13' KTM 1190 Adventure
12' Aprilia Tuono V4R APRC
12' KTM 690 Enduro R Evo2
RoteEddie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2010, 01:26 PM   #1543
rocketron
Megamoto/990 SMR
 
rocketron's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: uk
Oddometer: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoteEddie
You need a stiffer spring in the rear. Front also, but start with the rear.
Recommendation for the rear spring, i.e. Ohlin part number??
rocketron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2010, 05:56 PM   #1544
HPSaucy
Gnarly Adventurer
 
HPSaucy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: LA, CA, USA
Oddometer: 291
From memory you'll be two to three spring rates heavier than stock, but Ohlins are amazingly good about getting the right info to you, just call their customer service. If you have a shop you like I'd really suggest getting Racetech here in the US to send you their fork kit for your weight.
__________________
macfly
MM # 99526
S # 70020
www.HP2.info
HPSaucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2010, 11:57 PM   #1545
Joe Bar OP
Middle England
 
Joe Bar's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Oddometer: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketron
My new to me HP2 Megamoto was delivered today.

The ride height is set on the lowest settings and the rear preload looks quite high, previous owner was presumably a heavy short arse git.

I am 6'4'' and an athletic (ha ha) 17 stone (238 lb, 108 kg), i.e. a heavy lanky git. I do not intend to carry a pillion.

I reckon that I need to put the ride height back to the high setting (BMW's recommendation) and will probably need to keep the preload high??

I do not have a clue on the other suspension settings, any recommendations would be gratefully received.
Hi Ron,

Hope you enjoy the bike.

I would recommend putting the suspension back to the factory standard settings as described in the handbook. Easy and simple to do, even if you don't know much about suspension. Then go and ride the bike. If you're not happy when you've ridden it a while, then look at making changes.

Macfly is a big advocate of the Racetech set up, and I have had two bikes previously that I've had the Racetech kit installed on and was really happy with them (PDQ are their UK distributor, and are very knowledgeable). But, I've never felt the need to go the Racetech route on my Megamoto.

I did spend a fair amount of time adjusting the standard suspension to get it how I wanted, and am now more than happy with it. The bike can be quite sensitive to the weight of rider, how it is ridden and the type of roads it's ridden on. For that reason, it best to take everything back to standard, start from there and decide if YOU are happy with it.

Everybody feels different things when riding and everybody style is different, so ten riders will give you ten different opinions. Ride it and decide for yourself. If you're happy then that's all that really matters.
__________________
"Style is not a decoration added to a functional structure, it's a work of art."
Joe Bar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014