Show us your TransAlp modifications! - Page 326

ravelv · 09-29-2008, 05:51 AM

Uh, that's perfect! Another point is that vacuum pump dies same time as engine and you can jumpstart. Electrical pump maybe a problem if carbs are empty in this case. Also in case of electrical pump should be some system to stop it if engine stops- to avoid fuel leak in case of crash.
Bikes with ECU controlled pump are safe with this- ECU stops pump if engine does not work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atgreg

for my AT, i got a vacuum pump off a TDM850 from the wreckers, $AUS50 and it's been on my bike for well over 100,000km with no maintenance

Santa · 09-29-2008, 10:56 AM

Thanks for the info on the pumps.
I can go either way as the Hawk harnass has provisions for a fuel pump.
I have seen a bad fire related to an electric pump in the past so your advice about the ECU interface is very good.

I think I may try the Mikuni pump and see how that goes as I do like the simplicity.

Does the single carb mikuni pump accept the same size fuel line as the TA?

The stage 3 jetting kit may contribute to the fuel consumption issue as the jets are larger than stock. 168 main fr, 162 main rr for example.

The filters are clean and the lines not kinked.

Glen

showkey · 09-29-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravelv

Uh, that's perfect! Another point is that vacuum pump dies same time as engine and you can jumpstart. Electrical pump maybe a problem if carbs are empty in this case. Also in case of electrical pump should be some system to stop it if engine stops- to avoid fuel leak in case of crash.
Bikes with ECU controlled pump are safe with this- ECU stops pump if engine does not work.

The hawk and almost every other HONDA stop the electric fuel pump with a relay controled from the spark unit, oil pressure switch, ECM, bank angle sensor or some other signal. The Hawk unit is off the spark unit.
Bikes that are fuel injected present a greater fuel leak hazzard with 40 to 50 PSI of fuel pressure.

Bank angle sensor and oil presure signal were used as the bike falls over oil pressure would go low or BANK ANGLE was a angle sensing switch.

Another cheap source of a vacume fuel pump is large lawn mowers with a KOHLER engine the pumps are bolted to the engine cover. By big mowers I mean just about very large zero turn with twin tanks has this pump.

locorider · 09-29-2008, 01:03 PM

Santa:

At the carb side I'm using the stock TA fuel line. On the tank side, I used 1/4" fuel lines for the dual petcocks. I changed the old vacuum line, because it broke right there at the pump. The vacuum line id. is too small, so I used the same size as the fuel lines. No problem at all

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa

Thanks for the info on the pumps.
I can go either way as the Hawk harnass has provisions for a fuel pump.
I have seen a bad fire related to an electric pump in the past so your advice about the ECU interface is very good.

I think I may try the Mikuni pump and see how that goes as I do like the simplicity.

Does the single carb mikuni pump accept the same size fuel line as the TA?

The stage 3 jetting kit may contribute to the fuel consumption issue as the jets are larger than stock. 168 main fr, 162 main rr for example.

The filters are clean and the lines not kinked.

Glen

Ladder106 · 09-29-2008, 04:04 PM

The simplicity of the pump (not to mention all the above potential problems and complexity with the electric pump) is why I used the vacuum Mikuni.

I don't think 6000 miles is too bad for a tiny diaphragm and a two flapper valves. The pump is about the size of a pack of cigarettes, takes 1/4 in I.D> fuel and vacuum lines.

The TDM pump might be better but trying to find used TDM parts in the states is kinda like finding used AT parts in the states.....rare.

The rebuild took longer to remove the pump from the bike and fuel lines than it did to rebuild the pump itself. It's 4 screws, swap out the diaphragm, put in a new gasket, 4 screws and your done. The rebuild "kits" are cheap and take up as much space as 10 playing cards. You can carry a bunch in your tank bag with no problem so a roadside rebuild is easy if you have to do it.

The other thing I liked was the manner in which it failed. No sudden loss of fuel like an electric (which either works or fails completely or is intermittant...which is even worse), just a noticable loss of performance at high speed/high load that gradually got worse. The bike ran fine at lower speed with lower fuel demands. So....it will get you home. A fact that I much appreciate in any mechanical device.

sprale · 09-29-2008, 04:36 PM

There's a few good ADV articles in the November '08 CW. The newest TA is included, but not imported. Its still nice to see what is out there, even if I can't have one. :( In the meantime, I think a WiiStrom would do me fine.

Jim Rowley · 09-29-2008, 04:37 PM

That's funny. I just put my issue down after flipping through it.

Ladder106 · 09-29-2008, 04:54 PM

Remember back in the old days when motorcycle magazines would actually tell you (step-by-step) how to improve or mod your bike? (Or even do routine stuff like bleed brakes or replace fork oil or change a tire on the road side)

Where has that fun stuff gone? The mags now just test bikes so the dealers don't hafta have any demo models on hand....they just hand you a reprint and expect you to put down your money.

I've been reading BIKE from the UK for the last year or two and find it a refreshing change.

After the Egan column, Cycle is pretty boring.

I did, however, get a bit worried when Motorcyclist (I think) gave the Verseys the Bike of the Year award. Good God! Just think what'll happen if all the cruiser guys discover DS riding. You think there's too many closed roads now....just wait.

I grump more than most riders about the manufacturers not "getting it" and importing the great euro-models here, but, on the whole, I LIKE being out on the fringes of how most people like to ride. Too many humans always seem to spoil things very quickly.....sad.

Santa · 09-29-2008, 04:57 PM

Thanks for the info guys.
I went ahead and ordered one from that aircraft spruce company.
Also got a rebuild kit for the heck of it and some nifty bing fuel line designed for today's fuel formulations.

Where did you guys mount your pumps on the bikes?

Ladder106 · 09-29-2008, 05:14 PM

Here.....

I used a M6 stud in place of the bolt that hold the coolant pipe into the cylinder. One nut on the stud holds the coolant pipe, then 2 others hold the pump. The pumpt comes with 2 cast-in M6 holes in the case so mounting isn't too hard.

I don't think you can do this with the Hawk engine. So you'll have to get creative......again.

locorider · 09-30-2008, 03:42 AM

If I change the front hub to an xr, will it help on the front wheel and disk setup? Given that it will fit...of course.

ravelv · 09-30-2008, 06:04 AM

It will make easer to fit, for sure (if distance between forks is same like on XR), but stock XR brake disc is smaller than TA, I think. But, again, if you have also XR caliper, you can order bigger supermoto brakedisc and caliper adapter kit, if such are available for certain XR model.

But if disc have just 4 bolts, hub may have troubles under heaver bike...

Quote:

Originally Posted by locorider

If I change the front hub to an xr, will it help on the front wheel and disk setup? Given that it will fit...of course.

locorider · 09-30-2008, 06:08 AM

I have the Lenac caliper adapter on my TA, will it be a bolt on? Do I have to do some mods on these?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravelv

It will make easer to fit, for sure, but stock XR brake disc is smaller than TA, I think. But, again, if you have also XR caliper, you can order bigger supermoto brakedisc and caliper adapter kit, if such are available for certain XR model.

But if disc have just 4 bolts, hub may have troubles under heaver bike...

ravelv · 09-30-2008, 10:07 AM

As far as I know, TA caliper fits well on those old XR forks, just a bit one hole has to be adapted with file on fork.
This was discussed in this thread somewhere...

Quote:

Originally Posted by locorider

I have the Lenac caliper adapter on my TA, will it be a bolt on? Do I have to do some mods on these?

Ladder106 · 09-30-2008, 02:05 PM

Carlos,

The Lenac kit does NOT fit on the XR forks !! (at least not without some work)

The Lenac kit bolts to the outside of the brake mounts that are cast into the Transalp fork leg. The outside edges of these mounts are in a parallel plane. The Lenac brace is constructed to position the caliper from a point measured on this plane to the center line of the disc rotor.

The brake mounts on the XR forks have their outside edges on two different planes.....the top mount is thicker (requires a longer mounting bolt) than the bottom mount. The XR caliper mounts to the INSIDE of the brake mounts cast into the fork.

The only way to make the Lenac spacer work would be to have the top mount milled away so the outside face would be parallel to the bottom one and the distance between these two faces end up the same distance to the rotor center line as that on the Transalp.

I thought about trying this with a hand file but didn't feel like messing up the fork leg. Since the XR caliper bolts to the inside face of these mounting points I thought, at one point, that I'd experiment with filing down the outside of the top point and that it wouldn't really hurt anything if I screwed up. After looking at it, though, I concluded that reducing (significantly) the thickness of the top mounting point was not smart. Particularly since the brake mounting hole has to be enlarged or "egg-spaped" to make the TA caliper fit on the XR leg.

In the end, I used the stock TA disc and caliper. It might be interesting to find out what the diameter of the SM discs are for the XR600/650. I don't think that they are the same as the Lenac NT650 disc (318mm?) but are maybe 320mm. Possibly an caliper extension for a 320 disc would mate up well enough with the Lenac disc. Dunno, haven't tried it.

Braking with the braided line and TA disc is good. Not excellent but good. I've only come close to brake fade once when riding with a bunch of sport bike crazies on the PCH....down steep grades with a number of second gear corners. For loaded two-up riding, you might find it marginal.

I still have plans to install a DRZ400 front end on my bike and SM rotors and discs are widely available. I just have to find a machinist to press out the spindle from the DRZ triple clamp and turn it down to match the TA part.

Jim....do your guys do this?

09-29-2008, 10:56 AM	#4877
Santa Focused on the Future Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Oakley, Ca. Oddometer: 1,380	Thanks for the info on the pumps. I can go either way as the Hawk harnass has provisions for a fuel pump. I have seen a bad fire related to an electric pump in the past so your advice about the ECU interface is very good. I think I may try the Mikuni pump and see how that goes as I do like the simplicity. Does the single carb mikuni pump accept the same size fuel line as the TA? The stage 3 jetting kit may contribute to the fuel consumption issue as the jets are larger than stock. 168 main fr, 162 main rr for example. The filters are clean and the lines not kinked. Glen Santa screwed with this post 09-29-2008 at 11:04 AM

09-29-2008, 04:36 PM	#4881
sprale Hack the Planet! Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Republic of Texas Oddometer: 307	TransAlp in Cycle World Nov '08 There's a few good ADV articles in the November '08 CW. The newest TA is included, but not imported. Its still nice to see what is out there, even if I can't have one. :( In the meantime, I think a WiiStrom would do me fine. __________________ Dead Thread Necromancer! K5 V-Strom DL1000: Big Black Vee

09-29-2008, 04:37 PM	#4882
Jim Rowley Now what? Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Oddometer: 2,250	That's funny. I just put my issue down after flipping through it. __________________ Jim Rowley Colorado Springs, CO M. A. P.

09-30-2008, 03:42 AM	#4886
locorider Loco, pero no estúpido! Joined: Aug 2006 Location: Puerto Rico, U.S.A. Oddometer: 2,266	Forks...again If I change the front hub to an xr, will it help on the front wheel and disk setup? Given that it will fit...of course. __________________ Carlos locorider 1989 Honda XL600V Transalp, slightly modified! *1974 Catalina 22....sailing, mi otra pasión!* "If you don't follow your dreams, you might as well be a vegetable", Burt Munro, The World's Fastest Indian "Avoiding danger is no safer than outright exposure. Life is a daring adventure, or nothing" - Helen Keller Longaniza Ride Ruta del Café

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: .
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

09-29-2008, 04:04 PM	#4880
Ladder106 It's a short cut, really Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Davis, CA Oddometer: 4,268	The simplicity of the pump (not to mention all the above potential problems and complexity with the electric pump) is why I used the vacuum Mikuni. I don't think 6000 miles is too bad for a tiny diaphragm and a two flapper valves. The pump is about the size of a pack of cigarettes, takes 1/4 in I.D> fuel and vacuum lines. The TDM pump might be better but trying to find used TDM parts in the states is kinda like finding used AT parts in the states.....rare. The rebuild took longer to remove the pump from the bike and fuel lines than it did to rebuild the pump itself. It's 4 screws, swap out the diaphragm, put in a new gasket, 4 screws and your done. The rebuild "kits" are cheap and take up as much space as 10 playing cards. You can carry a bunch in your tank bag with no problem so a roadside rebuild is easy if you have to do it. The other thing I liked was the manner in which it failed. No sudden loss of fuel like an electric (which either works or fails completely or is intermittant...which is even worse), just a noticable loss of performance at high speed/high load that gradually got worse. The bike ran fine at lower speed with lower fuel demands. So....it will get you home. A fact that I much appreciate in any mechanical device.

09-29-2008, 04:54 PM	#4883
Ladder106 It's a short cut, really Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Davis, CA Oddometer: 4,268	Remember back in the old days when motorcycle magazines would actually tell you (step-by-step) how to improve or mod your bike? (Or even do routine stuff like bleed brakes or replace fork oil or change a tire on the road side) Where has that fun stuff gone? The mags now just test bikes so the dealers don't hafta have any demo models on hand....they just hand you a reprint and expect you to put down your money. I've been reading BIKE from the UK for the last year or two and find it a refreshing change. After the Egan column, Cycle is pretty boring. I did, however, get a bit worried when Motorcyclist (I think) gave the Verseys the Bike of the Year award. Good God! Just think what'll happen if all the cruiser guys discover DS riding. You think there's too many closed roads now....just wait. I grump more than most riders about the manufacturers not "getting it" and importing the great euro-models here, but, on the whole, I LIKE being out on the fringes of how most people like to ride. Too many humans always seem to spoil things very quickly.....sad.

09-29-2008, 04:57 PM	#4884
Santa Focused on the Future Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Oakley, Ca. Oddometer: 1,380	Thanks for the info guys. I went ahead and ordered one from that aircraft spruce company. Also got a rebuild kit for the heck of it and some nifty bing fuel line designed for today's fuel formulations. Where did you guys mount your pumps on the bikes?

09-29-2008, 05:14 PM	#4885
Ladder106 It's a short cut, really Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Davis, CA Oddometer: 4,268	Here..... I used a M6 stud in place of the bolt that hold the coolant pipe into the cylinder. One nut on the stud holds the coolant pipe, then 2 others hold the pump. The pumpt comes with 2 cast-in M6 holes in the case so mounting isn't too hard. I don't think you can do this with the Hawk engine. So you'll have to get creative......again.

09-30-2008, 02:05 PM	#4890
Ladder106 It's a short cut, really Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Davis, CA Oddometer: 4,268	Carlos, The Lenac kit does NOT fit on the XR forks !! (at least not without some work) The Lenac kit bolts to the outside of the brake mounts that are cast into the Transalp fork leg. The outside edges of these mounts are in a parallel plane. The Lenac brace is constructed to position the caliper from a point measured on this plane to the center line of the disc rotor. The brake mounts on the XR forks have their outside edges on two different planes.....the top mount is thicker (requires a longer mounting bolt) than the bottom mount. The XR caliper mounts to the INSIDE of the brake mounts cast into the fork. The only way to make the Lenac spacer work would be to have the top mount milled away so the outside face would be parallel to the bottom one and the distance between these two faces end up the same distance to the rotor center line as that on the Transalp. I thought about trying this with a hand file but didn't feel like messing up the fork leg. Since the XR caliper bolts to the inside face of these mounting points I thought, at one point, that I'd experiment with filing down the outside of the top point and that it wouldn't really hurt anything if I screwed up. After looking at it, though, I concluded that reducing (significantly) the thickness of the top mounting point was not smart. Particularly since the brake mounting hole has to be enlarged or "egg-spaped" to make the TA caliper fit on the XR leg. In the end, I used the stock TA disc and caliper. It might be interesting to find out what the diameter of the SM discs are for the XR600/650. I don't think that they are the same as the Lenac NT650 disc (318mm?) but are maybe 320mm. Possibly an caliper extension for a 320 disc would mate up well enough with the Lenac disc. Dunno, haven't tried it. Braking with the braided line and TA disc is good. Not excellent but good. I've only come close to brake fade once when riding with a bunch of sport bike crazies on the PCH....down steep grades with a number of second gear corners. For loaded two-up riding, you might find it marginal. I still have plans to install a DRZ400 front end on my bike and SM rotors and discs are widely available. I just have to find a machinist to press out the spindle from the DRZ triple clamp and turn it down to match the TA part. Jim....do your guys do this?