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Old 09-19-2012, 03:04 AM   #13651
mas335
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BW,

This is a dial indiator and accurately measures the "run out" or warpage of the rotor in thousanths of a inch, some indiators read in mm.

The indicator has a tab on the end that contacts the rotor and moves in or out while you rotate the wheel and displays the amount of movement.

It is the only accurate way to read the rotors "warpage" from the calipers point of contact and is a fairly common tool for doing precise work.


Showkey,
I have always heard about a function of the seals as also retracting the piston cups and that the seals are supposed to be directional when installed BUT......

The service manual does not describe this seal orientation and the seals from Honda have no indiactors on them as to which side goes toward the pads. Even when I look at them under magnification I do not see any angle or bevel to the edges.

Educate me please.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:38 PM   #13652
2bold2getold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas335 View Post
BW,

This is a dial indiator and accurately measures the "run out" or warpage of the rotor in thousanths of a inch, some indiators read in mm.

The indicator has a tab on the end that contacts the rotor and moves in or out while you rotate the wheel and displays the amount of movement.

It is the only accurate way to read the rotors "warpage" from the calipers point of contact and is a fairly common tool for doing precise work.


Showkey,
I have always heard about a function of the seals as also retracting the piston cups and that the seals are supposed to be directional when installed BUT......

The service manual does not describe this seal orientation and the seals from Honda have no indiactors on them as to which side goes toward the pads. Even when I look at them under magnification I do not see any angle or bevel to the edges.

Educate me please.
Hummm, Never really thought about it much, Just thought pad return was due to "Knock Back" as explained in the this page http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor.../pad-knockback

But also found this http://www.ucx.com/documents/squareseal.pdf
and this http://www.raybestos.com/wps/portal/...liper+Assembly

And this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake --- TMI --- but explains that hard/wide, soft/narrow thing. Didn't know how or why, Just seen it more than once.

2bold2getold screwed with this post 09-19-2012 at 05:20 PM
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:25 PM   #13653
showkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas335 View Post
BW,


Showkey,
I have always heard about a function of the seals as also retracting the piston cups and that the seals are supposed to be directional when installed BUT......

The service manual does not describe this seal orientation and the seals from Honda have no indiactors on them as to which side goes toward the pads. Even when I look at them under magnification I do not see any angle or bevel to the edges.

Educate me please.
You are correct the SM does not call out a direction on TA piston seals.........so they appear to be a square seal and are not directional. My mistake on the directional warning.

That said if the piston are not retracting after application the first place to look is the caliper seals, piston and piston bore. The piston should slide in and out by hand. The second place is the master cylinder..........all fluid pressure should be released as the brake handle is released. Master cylinder holding pressure ports blockage is common cause, less common but possible is brake hose collapse.

on the other comment 2bold

Knock back is a bad thing caused by excessive flex in the system........knock back then causes excessive pedal travel to get braking force back on the next application. In a perfect world zero runout, zero warpage, zero thickness variation and zero dish would be preferred and desired.
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showkey screwed with this post 09-19-2012 at 07:42 PM
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:13 PM   #13654
2bold2getold
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Originally Posted by showkey View Post
You are correct the SM does not call out a direction on TA piston seals.........so they appear to be a square seal and are not directional. My mistake on the directional warning.

That said if the piston are not retracting after application the first place to look is the caliper seals, piston and piston bore. The piston should slide in and out by hand. The second place is the master cylinder..........all fluid pressure should be released as the brake handle is released. Master cylinder holding pressure ports blockage is common cause, less common but possible is brake hose collapse.

on the other comment 2bold

Knock back is a bad thing caused by excessive flex in the system........knock back then causes excessive pedal travel to get braking force back on the next application. In a perfect world zero runout, zero warpage, zero thickness variation and zero dish would be preferred and desired.
Quess my world is not that perfect.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:02 AM   #13655
mas335
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" In a perfect world zero runout, zero warpage, zero thickness variation and zero dish would be preferred and desired. "

I don't live in a perfect world either, I have seen some rotors that have the surface texture so rippled that the thickness variance is all over the place, I blame this on wrong choice in pads, the braking effect is horrible and will pulse like mad.

Most TA caliper cups that I have seen do not move by hand at all, they are very tight.

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Old 09-20-2012, 06:10 AM   #13656
showkey
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The perfect world is the best case ........not seen on 25 year old bike............there are some that believe the rotor needs run out to knock the pads back........this is not the case. Runout or warpage is bad and at some point ( less than perfect) it will cause several of the problems mentioned earlier such as pulsation and poor braking. Runout can be caused by the rotor, hub, bearing or axle.
But this is not new news as it has thoroughly discussed.

There are motorcycle rotor resurfacing companies to make rotors "perfect" but some rotors do not have enough meat to get perfection before min thickness.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:10 PM   #13657
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:20 PM   #13658
Ladder106
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Nice....it's also cruise-control
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:05 PM   #13659
2bold2getold
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Nice....it's also cruise-control
Already got a Audiovox cruise control for it (got right wrist problems from old injuries). Had one on my old Concours and got one on my Fz1. Works great, just like a car.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:54 PM   #13660
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Originally Posted by mas335 View Post
BW,

It is the only accurate way to read the rotors "warpage" from the calipers point of contact and is a fairly common tool for doing precise work.
So I should be able to get my hands on one of these somewhere around here? Common tool at moto repair shops or am I looking at an unpleasantly large purchase to get ahold of one? Seems like another plausible cause of my issues.
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:03 PM   #13661
showkey
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Originally Posted by Belgian Waffles View Post
So I should be able to get my hands on one of these somewhere around here? Common tool at moto repair shops or am I looking at an unpleasantly large purchase to get ahold of one? Seems like another plausible cause of my issues.
Not a Harbor Freight fan but......it can be had for under $40...........quality unknown

http://www.harborfreight.com/clampin...tor-93051.html

Sears lists a wide variety of indicators with varying quality and price:

http://www.sears.com/search=dial%20i...e=CAT_REC_PRED

your location may vary............
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #13662
2bold2getold
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Originally Posted by Belgian Waffles View Post
So I should be able to get my hands on one of these somewhere around here? Common tool at moto repair shops or am I looking at an unpleasantly large purchase to get ahold of one? Seems like another plausible cause of my issues.
Been lucky, never needed one for a bike rotor. On cars, if any doubt, just resurfaced or replaced. Used a magnet mount indicator to set crank shaft end play. Any shop that rebuilds motors or machine shop should have a varity of dial indicator set ups. You can spend a lot or a little. Just Google "Dial Indicator" and you will find more information than you need. Ebay, Harbor Freight, Grainger, etc. Starrett has been the standard, but might not be necessary to spend what they cost if you are not using it much. An inexpensive one and a c-clamp or two will probably work on the TA rotor. https://www.google.com/search?q=dial...w=1280&bih=631
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:19 AM   #13663
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My new susp.

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Old 09-22-2012, 07:07 PM   #13664
happyclam
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My ta is finally legal. Still have a lot of work to do. Carb still has issues, xr forks feel like a jack hammer, rear shock waiting for a spacer upgrade, etc. I've put about 500 miles on her since i brought her back to life. Thanks for this thread you guys...I'm up to page270. My vstrom is getting neglected...as well as my wife and kids
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:59 AM   #13665
mas335
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Happyclam, just don't forget that the wife and kids and not maintenance free and will be around longer than the bike if you take care of them properly. It is ok to neglect the Vstrom.

BW, You might get a friendly bike shop to check the rotor run out for a small fee, at least maybe smaller than buying a good indicator.

I'm with Showkey on the Harbor Freight stuff, I wouldn't rely on any "precision" tool from them based on my experience.
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