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Old 04-13-2009, 08:14 AM   #211
itsatdm
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I found 80mm air gap worked best for me.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:48 AM   #212
DockingPilot
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Well, Im thinking of buying these cartridge's. Not knowing much about them does anyone with suspension knowledge have any thoughts ? I dont mind being the lab monkey on these but I'd hate to waste the time and money if they aren't going to make a vast improvement.
Thoughts from the guys in the know. Peanut gallery please refrain.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:11 AM   #213
sgopher185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Well, Im thinking of buying these cartridge's. Not knowing much about them does anyone with suspension knowledge have any thoughts ? I dont mind being the lab monkey on these but I'd hate to waste the time and money if they aren't going to make a vast improvement.
Thoughts from the guys in the know. Peanut gallery please refrain.
I found a US company that sells bitubo products here:

http://www.herdan.com/

Maybe they can get them.

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Old 04-13-2009, 10:20 AM   #214
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Well, Im thinking of buying these cartridge's. Not knowing much about them does anyone with suspension knowledge have any thoughts ? I dont mind being the lab monkey on these but I'd hate to waste the time and money if they aren't going to make a vast improvement.
Thoughts from the guys in the know. Peanut gallery please refrain.
I would be extremely interested in hearing what you think of these cartridges. I too think the suspension on the front end of the 8GS is not the best. Using my limited suspension knowledge, as far as I know, the best thing you could do for these forks is throw a set of actual cartridges in there. I would kill to have full adjustablility on the the front forks. According to the ads, these cartridges will give you that. And I would be utterly shocked if they didn't give a vast improvement.

As far as the rear shock goes, I'm actually pretty happy with the stock Sachs rear monoshock.

P.S. I put in a call to the Herdan people in PA about this cartridge kit. Waiting to hear back.

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The Griz screwed with this post 04-13-2009 at 10:29 AM
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:39 AM   #215
DockingPilot
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Ohh, they are not far from me. I can see me riding the Panzer right out there.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:01 AM   #216
bxr140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
I would kill to have full adjustablility on the the front forks.
External adjustability, unfortuantely, is pretty overrated. Having the ability to externally fine tune your low speed compression/rebound damping is kinda pointless if the internal tuning (which is 95% of suspension tuning) is off. Its kinda like using a band-aid on a gunshot wound... Then, once the internals are squared away the external adjustments really end up being a set-it-and-forget-it type of thing, once you find settings you like.

Even external front preload adjustability isn't THAT necessary. The front is typically MUCH less affected by load than the rear, so other than the very anal, the very confused, or the just plain curious, folks really don't need to change front preload once they've found a good setting. Really, having external front preload adjustability is most useful for its convenience during that initial tuning stage.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:03 AM   #217
DockingPilot
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Outside of that Boxer, whats your take on the cartridge inserts ?
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:29 AM   #218
The Griz
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Taken from the Bitubo site:

Quote:
The kit consists of a pair of complete cartridges, pressurised with nitrogen, with the hydraulics totally redesigned for optimum control of the forecarriage.
The top caps, in Ergal 7075,replacing the original ones, now provide for the adjustment of the preloading of the springs, included in the kit, for customised calibration.

Technical characteristics of the ABB 09 Cartridge Kit:
> Cr-Si alloy steel springs with linear rigidity
> Ergal top cap, with preload spring adjustment.
> Hydraulic unit in a sealed and nitrogen pressurised cartridge, with oversize pistons and laminar packs studied for the perfect control of damping.

The kit also contains low viscosity Competition Oil, for improved sleeve-spool smoothness, and its delivery with complete mounting instruction.
It looks like the only adjustment they give you is preload anyway. They claim to have tuned the damping characteristics perfectly, and don't provide adjustment for it. I'm speculating that the damping on the cartridges is tuned for a 180-200lb rider, which is what the bike seems designed for in the first place. Especially when you look at the fact that the rear shock's default preload setting (all the way out) is for a 187lb rider with full tank of gas.

Again, personally, I like the stock rear shock. In my experience the rear shock is not going to effect the front forks as much as one would think. This, in my opinion, is why some have had to make extreme adjusmtents on the rear shock before it effects the front fork at all. As in full preload on the rear or full damping on the rear.



Looking at the photo of the bike above: If I stand up and lean forward, what component do you think it is going to effect? The front fork. Now, if I sit on seat and scootch by butt back, what component do you think it will effect? The rear monoshock. If I make an adjustment to the rear shock, it will effect how the rear shock handles. Not, unfortunately, the font fork. And vice versa. However, pure suspension zen comes when they are tuned harmoniously, so that the front and rear suspension components behave similarly. Hopfully that is what the folks at Bitubo have accomplished with this cartridge kit, so that the front forks behave more in line with the stock rear monoshock. Or maybe they designed the cartridge kit to be harmonious with their aftermarket rear monoshock for the F800GS? Time will tell I guess.

For me the biggest annoyance with the suspension on this bike is that they are not harmonious with eachother. In my opinion, the rear shock behaves completely different than the front. I like how the stock rear behaves, so my goal is to keep the rear stock, and try to get the front to soften up and fall in line with the rear. And I think/hope that the Bitubo front fork cartridge kit will allow that. Now, where am I going to get $600??

P.S. One nice thing is about this kit (being it has preload adjustment) is that now you can adjust the preload of the front and the preload of the rear, further synchronizing the characterictics of both.
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The Griz screwed with this post 04-13-2009 at 12:21 PM
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:43 AM   #219
johngil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
I found 80mm air gap worked best for me.
I think I'll add 50 cc and see what she feels like.
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:46 PM   #220
Singletrack_mind
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I would like to drop my triple clamps down the fork legs a little, but don't know the proper torque for the pinch bolts. Anyone have a service manual yet?
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:49 PM   #221
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind
I would like to drop my triple clamps down the fork legs a little, but don't know the proper torque for the pinch bolts. Anyone have a service manual yet?
Fixed fork tube to fork bridge, top: 19Nm

Fixed fork tube to fork bridge, bottom: 19Nm

http://f800riders.org/HoW/showentry.php?e=43&catid=5
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:50 PM   #222
bxr140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Outside of that Boxer, whats your take on the cartridge inserts ?
I think $600 is a lot of dosh to spend. I don't doubt they'll feel "better" than the stockers, but $600 better? I don't know. The work Aftershocks mentioned in their conversation with itsatdm is probably a third of that biturbo kit, and probably gets you 90% there, or more. Add emulators (when they're released) to get to 98% of the biturbo kit...of course, now you're closer to $400. So...perhaps its better to bit the bullet on the extra $200. I just don't know.

Also, like itatdm said a while back (echoed by Aftershocks), the rear suspension plays just as much a part on the front as the front suspension does. If I'm going to spend $600 (or any significant amount of money, for that matter) on my suspension: 1. I want to get the most for my money. 2. I want to fix the weak link.

The problem is there's not enough trailblazing (like itsadtm did) out there to figure out what the best bang/buck might be, nor is there consensus on exactly what the weak link is.

IMHO, unless you're a twig or a tank, I'd suggest spending time DIYing with the tweaks that are easy, free/cheap, and reversible: Fork height, fork oil viscosity and height, fork spacer length, and of course the factory preload and damping in the rear.

Anyone know how the rear shock attaches at the top? Can you put spacers in there to raise the ride height without adjusting the preload? Kinda does the same as raising the forks, except you don't lose swingarm angle...
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:26 PM   #223
WoodWorks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind
I would like to drop my triple clamps down the fork legs a little, but don't know the proper torque for the pinch bolts. Anyone have a service manual yet?
According to the Torque Values page on the BMW Service Manual DVD, it should be Top 19 Nm, Bottom 20 Nm.

David
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:50 PM   #224
trailtrick
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John you need 56 and a 7 wt oil ,set the level @90-100 mm for starts,you can see in the picture the is ridding the lower part o the stroke a lot
Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
Even w/ the .52 springs, I just don't like these forks.
Javier will have another customer.
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Old 04-13-2009, 02:58 PM   #225
johngil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailtrick
John you need 56 and a 7 wt oil ,set the level @90-100 mm for starts,you can see in the picture the is ridding the lower part o the stroke a lot
I could do that, but will probably just add some oil for now and let you do your thing when money allows.
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