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Old 10-13-2013, 10:18 PM   #4171
WayneC1
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The question re fork length made me look at my YZ Notes and I realised I had not updated it with additional ABS removal info following some work and testing by GangPlank so I have now updated it with the correct wire colors for both single and dual spark models and a note on what the Sertao guys have found with the later ABS system. Basically they have to extract the electronics board and retain it to have a working speedo.

The fork length info is in there as well as being in the YZRebuild PDF

Have also added a pic showing the differences between the internals for 46 and 48 mm YZ forks
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:58 PM   #4172
hasenwerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
David, figures from my notes and measurements from a few people, all done a long time ago

Fork Length - Bottom of steering head to axle centre GS 615mm Dakar 678 mm

We used the bottom of steering head as a reference point due differences in height of the lower yokes out there
Looks like my GS is spot on then, but my Sertao is 1cm shorter than a Dakar.

Does your notes have rear measurements - what is the link to the notes?
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2006 BMW F650 "YZ" Dakar | 2013 BMW G650 "YZ" Sertao

ADVRIDER Discount: BMW F650 GS & Dakar / G650 GS & Sertao "Adventure Extender" 6L / 1.6gal Auxiliary Fuel Tanks
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:48 PM   #4173
WayneC1
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David, the link to the notes etc is http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/ForkUpgrades.html

Re the rear, people have stuck to using the shock length, travel and leverage ratio's, Aquatic may have some more detailed info on that

The Sertao numbers you have surprise me but measurement errors and lower yoke height differences could account for the 10mm, the Sertao also has a different damper unit internally and that could be causing the decrease in height as well

EDIT - Distance from bottom of Lower Yoke to bottom of Steering Head without front guard thickness is 33mm

Would be interested in accurate info from the Sertao to add to the notes so it covers all the model variants

How are you with getting electrical measurements off the Sertao ABS, that is where we need some more details for ABS removal
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:38 AM   #4174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
David, the link to the notes etc is http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/ForkUpgrades.html

How are you with getting electrical measurements off the Sertao ABS, that is where we need some more details for ABS removal
Wayne, I found this while doing some research about removing the abs on the Sertao. I think he was the first one of the Tao owners that managed to eliminate the abs and have a working speedo at the same time.

From Tempered-lobster:
Quote:
Speedo is fixed and working I haven't had time to do a walk through, but basically take the abs unit. Undo the 4 torx bolts and remove the plastic box on top. Discard the main metal abs unit (all the weight is in this). Inside the plastic box are 4 electro magnets, cut these off as close to the board inside as you can. Make a stainless or aluminium back plate with 4 bolt holes to match the plastic box (the box has a silicon ribbon to waterproof it). Put the back plate on, tighten up the bolts, reattach the abs connector to the wiring loom, attach the box to the bracket where the abs was located, and bam, working speedo.

After talking to contacts at BMW HQ, the dakar abs pass through method will never work. The ABS unit takes the signal from the back wheel, and electronically alters it before passing it to the speedo and BMSC.
I emailed him to get more info but no response yet.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:09 AM   #4175
WayneC1
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Thanks, Yes familiar with those write up and it was what made me realise a simple interface board may eliminate the need to butcher an ABS unit
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:33 PM   #4176
hasenwerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
David, the link to the notes etc is http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/ForkUpgrades.html

Re the rear, people have stuck to using the shock length, travel and leverage ratio's, Aquatic may have some more detailed info on that

The Sertao numbers you have surprise me but measurement errors and lower yoke height differences could account for the 10mm, the Sertao also has a different damper unit internally and that could be causing the decrease in height as well

EDIT - Distance from bottom of Lower Yoke to bottom of Steering Head without front guard thickness is 33mm

Would be interested in accurate info from the Sertao to add to the notes so it covers all the model variants

How are you with getting electrical measurements off the Sertao ABS, that is where we need some more details for ABS removal
ABS and braking
My GS doesn't have ABS so going 100% Yamaha with that. To settle an argument here... my 2800kg Volkswagen Syncro has two 276mm front discs so I think aftermarket 270 / 300 / 320mm Yamaha unit will be FINE on a 500kg bike!

The Sertao, of course, does have ABS. Seeing how at http://www.fastforward.ca I do automotive wiring and vehicle speed sensors, I am going to see what it takes to take a signal generated from the Yamaha front wheel. "How hard could it be" especially with the SpeedPulse Tachotronic that I sell that will multiply a speed signal from 0.1X to 10X

Front measurement
Correct me if I am wrong, but I did measure from the bottom of the steering head didn't I? Coming from a automotive background and not a bike background, but the steering head is the part of the frame that houses the upper and lower bearings that the steering moves on - right? So the measurements that I have are from the top of the lower triple which is parallel to the lower steering head. 62.5cm for the GS and 66.0cm for the Sertao - this is with the bike unloaded and on the side stand on level ground.

Rear measurement
The reason for wanting the rear measurement is to get the angle of the dangle correct. I need a different shock for my GS and I have access to DL650 and DL1000 rear shocks and want to see if they are a viable shock for the rear "on a budget" I have a hard time with the concept of paying 2x more for a shock than I will for the whole front assembly of a YZ!
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ADVRIDER Discount: BMW F650 GS & Dakar / G650 GS & Sertao "Adventure Extender" 6L / 1.6gal Auxiliary Fuel Tanks
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:05 PM   #4177
WayneC1
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Front Measurement

The top or bottom of the lower yoke at the fork leg is not constant across all yokes due differences in yoke design so is not the best place to measure from. There are also variations in positioning of the SHB and dust covers on the yoke post between yokes so the only constant which can be used in any YZ or WP conversion is the bottom of the steering head

Re the speed sensor, as the speedo expects signals from a 17" rear wheel it would require division of a signal from a 21" not multiplication
It is a great pity the early Dash is not programmable as per the cars where they are able to beam in and change the ratio at will for different wheel sizes

It will be relatively simple to change the 0-1v signal from the rear wheel sensor to what I expect will be 0-12v into the dash assuming they still expect a pulse train into the dash and have not moved to another form of comms on the 2010+ models
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:03 PM   #4178
hasenwerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1 View Post
Front Measurement

The top or bottom of the lower yoke at the fork leg is not constant across all yokes due differences in yoke design so is not the best place to measure from. There are also variations in positioning of the SHB and dust covers on the yoke post between yokes so the only constant which can be used in any YZ or WP conversion is the bottom of the steering head

Re the speed sensor, as the speedo expects signals from a 17" rear wheel it would require division of a signal from a 21" not multiplication
It is a great pity the early Dash is not programmable as per the cars where they are able to beam in and change the ratio at will for different wheel sizes

It will be relatively simple to change the 0-1v signal from the rear wheel sensor to what I expect will be 0-12v into the dash assuming they still expect a pulse train into the dash and have not moved to another form of comms on the 2010+ models
As far as the ABS is concerned, I think you are reading too much into it. The ABS Control Unit isn't expecting a 17:21 or a 17:19 ratio or really any other ratio upon that. When you start riding, it counts the pulses from the rear and front front and uses those numbers for the rest of the ride. If it was totally fixed, you would never be able to change tires sizes. I have switched from a 19 to 21" front on my 1100 GS and friends have done this on their 1150 ADV and also a 2006 650 GS with ABS. So really all that is needed for ABS on a Yamaha front wheel is something to hold the ABS sensor and a ring at the prescribed distance away from it. If people can machine a complicated setup to put a BMW wheel in there they can surely make something to hold a ring to the Yamaha wheel and how a ABS sensor to the fork.

As far as a non-ABS driven speedometer, the speedometer will need a VSS and most times automotive that is 5V, I suspect that to be the same for the BMW, yet a 12V setup isn't hard to accomplish with the SpeedPulse Tachotronic either. It can go from x0.1 to x10 in a bunch of very small steps to calibrate the signal so you could run a hall sender off the front or rear wheel or even off of the engine sprocket of you so choose.
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2006 BMW F650 "YZ" Dakar | 2013 BMW G650 "YZ" Sertao

ADVRIDER Discount: BMW F650 GS & Dakar / G650 GS & Sertao "Adventure Extender" 6L / 1.6gal Auxiliary Fuel Tanks
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:31 AM   #4179
WayneC1
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My comments were only re speedo and getting the 2010+ speedo to work with the existing BMW rear wheel sensor without ABS

On the F's it is simply a question of swinging the sensor connection from ABS to Speedo and it works, what the Sertao owners have found is that on the new models it does not work which indicates the new dash using a different form of signalling, the question we are addressing is what adaption of the signal does the ABS do
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:11 AM   #4180
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I am keeping my ABS and it looks like I need to order up a brake line.

What length has everyone gone with? Anything special to look out for??
I ended up with a Spiegler line but it looks like they sent the wrong banjo fitting on the top.

Anyone know what the angle is for the top and bottom banjo fittings for the font line?

Thanks in advance.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:23 AM   #4181
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I ended up with a Spiegler line but it looks like they sent the wrong banjo fitting on the top.

Anyone know what the angle is for the top and bottom banjo fittings for the font line?

Thanks in advance.
I used a Russell braided stainless steel "universal" brake line, plus appropriate banjo bolt screw-in ends for my BMW/Brembo master cylinder and Yami caliper. I installed this about 20K miles ago, bled the brakes and haven't touched since. I think both banjo bolts and the brake line were around $40, ordered from a local MC shop.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:52 AM   #4182
Aquatic
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footpeg relocation

To go with the improved handling, improved posture!!
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....ostcount=11725

As stated, I have extras. PM me if interested
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:15 PM   #4183
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Step two in the works. Getting off work early to make a somewhat extended drive to drop off the forks for new valves, springs and shortening. The bearings on the YZ wheel aren't in super great shape either, so those will probably get swapped also.

On an unrelated note, the shop I'm going to might be the first moto shop I've come across only open 9-5, mon-fri.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:05 PM   #4184
dready bear
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Please can someone give me a list of usd forks that fit the f650gs Dakar?
here in the UK its well hard to find any KTM, WR, YZ forks at a good price so need to look at others.
Many thanks
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:14 PM   #4185
Aquatic
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Please can someone give me a list of usd forks that fit the f650gs Dakar?
here in the UK its well hard to find any KTM, WR, YZ forks at a good price so need to look at others.
Many thanks

Damian did a DRZ conversion - http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745689

With time and effort you could make any forks fit. The YZ is the easiest as there are conversion parts available for sale
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