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Old 12-12-2014, 08:44 AM   #1
No False Enthusiasm OP
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"Safety Third"

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Complacency is the real enemy, and I’m pretty sure the way to eliminate it will not involve more rules and more soothing assurances that an individuals safety is someone else’s priority. Workers need to understand that being “in compliance” is not the same as being “out of danger.”
http://www.ishn.com/articles/93505--...-worth-having-

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Old 12-12-2014, 08:55 AM   #2
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3rd gear?
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Old 12-12-2014, 09:15 AM   #3
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Safety Third!


which is why you send Richard Hammond and Jeremy Clarkson out ahead of you so you know what the failure modes are and what precautions to take...


Actually, you could probably just send Clarkson twice.
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Old 12-12-2014, 09:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rgconner View Post
Safety Third!


which is why you send Richard Hammond and Jeremy Clarkson out ahead of you so you know what the failure modes are and what precautions to take...


Actually, you could probably just send Clarkson twice.
Now that is funny.
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Old 12-12-2014, 10:01 AM   #5
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From Mike Rowe's website: http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2009/08/safety-third-huh/

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Old 12-12-2014, 10:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm View Post
Still a big fan of Mike Rowe. His TED talk is great too, and when he briefly talks about safety, he says the same thing as the article.

Ultimately, you are responsible for your safety, and you're the one who will face the consequences if you don't.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4lzTV1CQAIPzBI.jpg
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Old 12-12-2014, 10:12 AM   #7
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Good article (I am always impressed by Mike Rowe though).

I work in a large machine shop (with parts weighing anywhere from 30 tons to a couple hundred pounds) and a couple years ago we had to start wearing hard hats at all times. We thought it was silly since any part we work on can smash you regardless of what is on top of your head. One of our employees was going through some boxes on a shelf that was eye level when a pipe on the next shelf up was rattled loose and rolled towards him. Granted, when the pipe fell off the shelf and struck the employee, his hard hat did do its job. What irritated me was management kept saying "See? We need hard hats here!". Every time I heard that I would ask "Why was a pipe left up on the shelf where it could roll off?"
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Old 12-13-2014, 06:33 AM   #8
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No one has really stated what the article means, and it bears discussion. The reason this is so controversial is that both Mike and the safety nazis are right from their different perspectives.

The safety nazis are charged with keeping EVERYONE safe. That includes the mindless hordes who either aren't able or don't bother to think for themselves and evaluate the situation at hand. Stupid, overzealous rules applied universally, regardless of whether they apply to this situation generally keep your statistics looking good.

But statistics deal with populations, not individuals. Some of us are capable of thinking. We are generally safer than the average Joe, regardless of what standard safety procedures we are or are not following, simply because we are thinking about and assessing risk in real time. It's called situational awareness.

We are even sometimes put at risk by being surrounded by those who can't think, but believe they are being safe, when in fact they have no clue. There are even some cases where risk mitigation for the masses can put those who think at GREATER risk.

This is a concept that needs to be internalized by all us motorcyclists. Especially those who are so gung-ho about following the rules. Blindly following the rules can get you dead. Rules are best regarded as guidelines. When you start treating them as immutable laws of nature, you have just switched off your brain and become a danger to yourself and others.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:19 AM   #9
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Simple and profound linkage of safety rules and safety awareness CTROMLEY. Nicely said.

That thing about situational awareness and mental rehearsal and option
analysis prior to emergencies is really key to selecting the best response in the split second emergency of an evasive decision-sequence.

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Old 12-14-2014, 08:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverflow View Post
.....Ultimately, you are responsible for your safety, and you're the one who will face the consequences if you don't.
My employees do ridiculously dangerous work. There is no way to make them safe from the inherent danger of being out on the highway. In many ways they are the same as riders. They aren't allowed crash trucks or barriers and often not even lane closures. So they are totally dependent on visibility and situational awareness.

So that is our one absolute rule. If an employee asks to be removed from a job because they don't feel safe then the crew comes in with no consequences. We may send a different crew right back out, change how they are doing the job or call it off. But we never punish somebody for saying no and we always listen to their issue.

In other words: good advice.
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Old 12-14-2014, 03:15 PM   #11
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Quote:

.....being “in compliance” is not the same as being “out of danger.”


That says it quite well.
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Old 12-14-2014, 03:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
My employees do ridiculously dangerous work. There is no way to make them safe from the inherent danger of being out on the highway. In many ways they are the same as riders. They aren't allowed crash trucks or barriers and often not even lane closures. So they are totally dependent on visibility and situational awareness.

So that is our one absolute rule. If an employee asks to be removed from a job because they don't feel safe then the crew comes in with no consequences. We may send a different crew right back out, change how they are doing the job or call it off. But we never punish somebody for saying no and we always listen to their issue.

In other words: good advice.
Glad to hear it. Some days a confident person is just "off" and/or loses their nerve.
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:58 AM   #13
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both Mike and the safety nazis are right from their different perspectives.

But they're on the opposite ends of the divide.

Safety nazis (does this count as a Godwin?) are doing lowest common denominator policy. They may or may not be able to identify specific threats, so everyone is treated the same with a totally inflexible policy. Same as our beloved TSA, they're not smart enough to identify individual terrorists so *everyone* is treated as a terrorist.

Mike is accepting a safety policy and making it an individual responsibility and asking, "why?" on some things, which the S.N.'s can't handle.

Good reading and plenty to ruminate and chew my cud on.

Anyone from the USAF and done all the ORM (operational risk management) stuff? They still doing that?
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:57 PM   #14
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Here's the thing, companies don't require ppe and safety procedures because they care about us as people, it's to protect their butts in case of an injury lawsuit. They comply with OSHA they look better, plain and simple.

Here at the refinery, I always train the new guys that ppe is there to protect them from dumbassedness. We wear hard hats to prevent hitting our heads on pipes, etc., but that doesn't mean I want to find out if it works. Same with fall gear (which at our company is a more sane policy, where we wear it only over 6 feet where it will actually work). I wear it when I need it, but I never want to find out if it works.

I always tell them, because I believe it, that the most important piece of safety equipment is that gray stuff inside your skull. Use that first and you'll never have to find out if the ppe they make us wear actually works (and sometimes it doesn't).

I feel the same way about riding. I wear the amount of gear I'm comfortable with the risk in, meaning full face helmet, gloves, an armored jacket, jeans (yes, I know atgatt people...) and boots. I have found out these work unfortunatelly because I rode to long and hard, got tired and instead of pulling over for the night I rode on, didn't pay attention to the gray matter and crashed. Lesson learned (but I am glad I had the jacket and fullface!). Too many riders (and yes, this is only my opinion and cannot be backed up by stats, so go easy on me people) wear attgat, high vis, etc. and don't rely as much on their gray matter. I'm obviously not slamming attgat or high vis, as I am not talking about all who wear them, but we all know there are some out there...

Engage the brain first is all I'm saying.
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Old 12-16-2014, 03:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by hippiebrian:

...the most important piece of safety equipment is that gray stuff inside your skull. Use that first and you'll never have to find out if the ppe they make us wear actually works (and sometimes it doesn't).
... the essence of "Safety Third"...

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