ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2014, 08:08 AM   #1
Gripsteruser OP
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 592
MSF Instructors - how do you keep batts up?

Am considering helping some young friends learn to ride.

Just thinking thru the parking lot sessions - does the MSF sessions have difficulty with running bike batteries down during training?

Seems like that would happen - lots of idling, very little time spent at cruising RPM so the battery can charge , etc.

What's the story?
__________________
1988 R100GS (since new)

Previous- XT350, CB900F, XL185S, GS425E
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 10:14 AM   #2
dwoodward
Beastly Adventurer
 
dwoodward's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet, Napa Valley North
Oddometer: 4,871
Can't speak for what they do anywhere else, but here we pull the headlight fuse- if not the headlight, since we put a name plate over the headlight.
dwoodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 10:29 AM   #3
Gripsteruser OP
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Can't speak for what they do anywhere else, but here we pull the headlight fuse- if not the headlight, since we put a name plate over the headlight.
That would certainly help.

This may not even come to fruition. Looks like Colorado DMV has only 5 widely scattered (far out in the sticks) locations where they'll do the ride test. Probably relying on MSF or 3rd parties to do equivalent of ride testing.
__________________
1988 R100GS (since new)

Previous- XT350, CB900F, XL185S, GS425E
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 04:29 PM   #4
dwoodward
Beastly Adventurer
 
dwoodward's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet, Napa Valley North
Oddometer: 4,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
That would certainly help.

This may not even come to fruition. Looks like Colorado DMV has only 5 widely scattered (far out in the sticks) locations where they'll do the ride test. Probably relying on MSF or 3rd parties to do equivalent of ride testing.
MSF is a curriculum provider- they don't do any direct training.

In WA, those providers do the DOL license testing too (IOW, you go to DOL, they'll send you to a provider for testing). In OR, you have to take a class to get endorsed. I hadn't heard that getting a rdie test in CO was problematic, but I didn't have to taek a ride test in CO, just the written.
dwoodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 06:39 PM   #5
JohnCW
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
Am considering helping some young friends learn to ride.

Just thinking thru the parking lot sessions - does the MSF sessions have difficulty with running bike batteries down during training?

Seems like that would happen - lots of idling, very little time spent at cruising RPM so the battery can charge , etc.

What's the story?
Without testing it, so admittedly all theory. I'd be surprised if a modern bike with a decent battery would have a problem just from spending a lot of time idling due to headlights etc. I'd expect any problem would be a result of a lot of stop/starting on a bike with a dodgy battery. So keeping them idling rather than switching of the bike should give less problems.
JohnCW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 06:48 PM   #6
Gripsteruser OP
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
Without testing it, so admittedly all theory. I'd be surprised if a modern bike with a decent battery would have a problem just from spending a lot of time idling due to headlights etc. I'd expect any problem would be a result of a lot of stop/starting on a bike with a dodgy battery. So keeping them idling rather than switching of the bike should give less problems.
Reason I was asking is that my '87 XT350 gave out on me one Sunday when I was slowly riding around car saleslots looking at the cars. I could kick that bike back to life. But many newer bikes are electric start only.

MSF, or somebody, is giving hands-on riding courses which, if you pass, serve for the Colorado driving test.

I was hoping that my young friends, who can't really afford the un-subsidized $400 courses might be able to be trained by me and pass the riding test. But if the State makes the riding test inaccessible, it doesn't matter what I do. They could still use the supplemental exercises but that's all.
__________________
1988 R100GS (since new)

Previous- XT350, CB900F, XL185S, GS425E
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 06:52 PM   #7
Vertical C
Beastly Adventurer
 
Vertical C's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Oddometer: 1,970
You can still pushstart if you dont have a kick.
Vertical C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 07:50 PM   #8
ruin
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2014
Location: NH
Oddometer: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
Reason I was asking is that my '87 XT350
I was hoping that my young friends, who can't really afford the un-subsidized $400 courses might be able to be trained by me and pass the riding test. But if the State makes the riding test inaccessible, it doesn't matter what I do. They could still use the supplemental exercises but that's all.
Well you could take a week or two off and get yourself ridercoach certified, and then administer the test yourself, charge whatever you like. Do us all a favor though and don't pass anyone who shouldn't be.

That said, and at the risk of coming off extremely rude, if they can't afford the $400 for a course -- how are they going to afford proper gear, insurance, gasoline, tires, inspections, registration... and a bike to begin with?

This is a link to all state DMV locations that do drive tests (by appointment), there isn't one close enough? http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite...MV%2FRMVLayout
ruin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 10:23 PM   #9
RVDan
Beastly Adventurer
 
RVDan's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Abbotsford British Columbia Canada
Oddometer: 2,380
When I went to riding school the crappy bikes had the idle turned up to ludicrous levels so I don't believe batteries ever went dead.

I kept turning the idle speed down because it annoyed me.

Burned out clutches and broken levers, signals, and mirrors were the bigger issue.
__________________
Sometimes wheelies happen


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocker
You can never have too much hook.
RVDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 06:33 AM   #10
Gripsteruser OP
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruin View Post
This is a link to all state DMV locations that do drive tests (by appointment), there isn't one close enough? http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite...MV%2FRMVLayout
If you dig further you'll see that the only offices that give mc ride tests are: Julesburg, Grand Junction, Durango, Burlington and mid-town Denver.
All the others are "full service" - except for mc ride tests. If you know Colorado you know those aren't close to Greeley. (And being that it's gov't it might be that those offices don't give tests either but forgot to put the info on their pages.( Denver is in the ring of fire so that's a no-go just on general principles)
__________________
1988 R100GS (since new)

Previous- XT350, CB900F, XL185S, GS425E
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 10:22 AM   #11
ruin
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2014
Location: NH
Oddometer: 127
I don't know CO at all, but it looks like it's only about 50mi from Denver. That's not "too far" in my book. It's not "close", but I've had longer commutes at some day jobs. 50 miles vs 5 or 10 certainly wouldn't stop me from getting my endorsement.
ruin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 10:30 AM   #12
Gripsteruser OP
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruin View Post
I don't know CO at all, but it looks like it's only about 50mi from Denver. That's not "too far" in my book. It's not "close", but I've had longer commutes at some day jobs. 50 miles vs 5 or 10 certainly wouldn't stop me from getting my endorsement.
Those who are playing Colorado Tag-O-rama refer to Denver as the Ring of Fire. As in - Mordor. A very bad place for hobbits on motorcycles.
I myself with over 30 years of riding experience would not choose to ride a motorcycle into Mordor. (and besides, they probably forgot to state that they don't give the ride test either).
__________________
1988 R100GS (since new)

Previous- XT350, CB900F, XL185S, GS425E
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 05:22 PM   #13
Andyvh1959
Cheesehead Klompen
 
Andyvh1959's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Da frozen tundra, 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
Oddometer: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruin View Post
Well you could take a week or two off and get yourself ridercoach certified,
Not quite. More like FIVE weekends of Rider Coach training, and you covering the costs until teaching your first class. Then, if you pass the various tests you'd be certified to conduct the BRC on a certified range.

Oh, the bikes we have on the range sites I work, we have Battery Tenders plugged into the bike when not on the range. Other than the marginal battery capacity and lousy starting of the Honda 250 Rebel and 250 Nighthawk very few of the bikes have any trouble through a weekend BRC. Occassionally a student runs the battery down due to inept starting technique. We either bump start the bike or get another bike from the stable. We do NOT let any student bump start a bike, and few instructors do it.
__________________
When life throws you a curve,.....lean into it!
42+ year rider, 22+ year MSF Coach, Street, Dirt, Ice, ride em all!
Andyvh1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 06:34 PM   #14
TwistedColorado
n00b
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Oddometer: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
I myself with over 30 years of riding experience would not choose to ride a motorcycle into Mordor. (and besides, they probably forgot to state that they don't give the ride test either).
Maybe I live in the ring of fire (not sure, never heard Denver area referred to that way), but if you aren't comfortable riding here, you might not be the best person to teach someone who lives only 50 miles from Denver how to ride.

As for the bikes, I'd be more worried about a new rider dropping a bike than idling killing the battery. CO does partially subsidize the MSF courses, and if you're paying $400, you're getting ripped off. You should be able to do it for around $200, plus or minus a bit. $300 at the Harley dealer in Greeley if that's your thing. Either way though, one drop of a bike can be $300, so it's reasonable. If that's too much, Wyoming offers it for even less money ($150 for a non-Wyoming resident) and IIRC, Colorado accepts a Wyoming MSF card for licensing.
TwistedColorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 06:51 PM   #15
Andyvh1959
Cheesehead Klompen
 
Andyvh1959's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Da frozen tundra, 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
Oddometer: 621
BIG +1 what TwistedColorado is saying. MSF students, working on a secure safe range, with instructors trained to watch for subtleties of mistakes learners make, see bikes dropped a lot. One drop of a bike that dents a tank, could easily exceed $500 in repairs, on a little 250.

You game to do that with your bike? You game to chance teaching someone to ride, have that person fall while under your instruction, and possibly have them sue you? Do that without adequate insurance (like the MSF training sites provide)?

Leave the instruction to those trained to do it.
__________________
When life throws you a curve,.....lean into it!
42+ year rider, 22+ year MSF Coach, Street, Dirt, Ice, ride em all!
Andyvh1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014