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Old 09-20-2012, 12:24 AM   #1996
Jud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
From someone who has owned an FJR, DL650, and S10, I'd probably steer you towards the Explorer which is a lot closer to the FJR than the S10. The S10 and DL650 are remarkably similar in overall personality for all the good (and bad) that entails.

- Mark
If the Explorer had a larger tank I just might but I get irritated at even the DL,s fuel range on long trips. Matter of fact, I really like that 8.5gal tank on the Stelvio but the Tenere seems to have most of my wants along with dead nuts boring Yamaha reliability. I was really disappointed when Triumph came out with the XC model and couldn't be bothered to listen to one of the main gripes many had with the regular Explorer. Then to insult us {those of use that wanted more range} even further, they came up with some BS about the extra fuel load ruining the handling and making it top heavy. Oh yea buddyyyyyy, I'm sure an extra 6-12lbs woulda made all the difference in the world and there is no way possible to engineer the tank so as to hold that extra gallon or two lower than the normal fuel cell.

Yep,,,, so glad Triumph reads the forums and understands what their customers want,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the Starbucks brigade that is.

But it is a step in the right direction after they basically went full sport tourer with the Tiger 1050.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:21 AM   #1997
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Originally Posted by Jud View Post
If the Explorer had a larger tank I just might but I get irritated at even the DL,s fuel range on long trips....but the Tenere seems to have most of my wants along with dead nuts boring Yamaha reliability.
Sorry to get off topic on a FJR thread, but since you brought up fuel range as so important to you....

Keep in mind a couple things as you consider the S10. First, they advertise 6.0 or 6.08 capacity, but if you fill to the bottom of the filler neck as you're supposed to, it only holds 5.75. (Drilling the neck or burping extra fuel in the the tank can get it to around 6.) Second, the S10 is no fuel mileage champ.... most of us are getting low-40's and I've had a few tanks in the low-30's if I'm really pushing. I tour with a lot of other bikes and generally my S10 uses more fuel than a GS or FJR and a lot more fuel than the Wee.

Bottom line is that the S10's effective range of about 190 miles (with a one gallon or so reserve) is only a few more miles than the GS and somewhat less than a FJR or a Wee. The new Wee has a smaller tank but gets even better gas mileage so I suspect it still has longer legs than the S10.

To get a truly long-range bike, you need to go with the GSA or Stelvio.

- Mark
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:49 PM   #1998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
To get a truly long-range bike, you need to go with the GSA or Stelvio.

- Mark

or an ST1300 - if you want a pure road burner. I think all of these mentioned, the ST13, GSA, and Stelvio, all require 91 octane or higher. The FJR is happy with 87 and E10.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:37 PM   #1999
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Yep, that was always one of the pleasures of owning a FJR - being able to use regular gas.

- Mark
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:31 AM   #2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Sorry to get off topic on a FJR thread, but since you brought up fuel range as so important to you....

Keep in mind a couple things as you consider the S10. First, they advertise 6.0 or 6.08 capacity, but if you fill to the bottom of the filler neck as you're supposed to, it only holds 5.75. (Drilling the neck or burping extra fuel in the the tank can get it to around 6.) Second, the S10 is no fuel mileage champ.... most of us are getting low-40's and I've had a few tanks in the low-30's if I'm really pushing. I tour with a lot of other bikes and generally my S10 uses more fuel than a GS or FJR and a lot more fuel than the Wee.

Bottom line is that the S10's effective range of about 190 miles (with a one gallon or so reserve) is only a few more miles than the GS and somewhat less than a FJR or a Wee. The new Wee has a smaller tank but gets even better gas mileage so I suspect it still has longer legs than the S10.

To get a truly long-range bike, you need to go with the GSA or Stelvio.

- Mark
Yep, I've noticed the fuel range most are getting on their Teneres and Explorers and I know the Tenere isn't a GS or Stelvio grade super tanker but it's still getting on average, 20-40 miles more than the Explorer and while that might not sound like alot, it makes alot of difference to me. Especially when that 240ish mile range of the Tenere isn't quite enough to make me happy in the 1st place. From what I've seen from most reports, real world riding on either bike will return 40-45mpg when ridden in "touring" mode which aligns well with what you are getting. I have modded my DL to the point where I rarely get any better than that so the Tenere should return about the same range as my DL which while not my "perfect" to me,,,,,,,, is better than the Explorer which returns no better than my old Buell 1125CR and it's a naked sports bike for goodness sakes.

The reason I like the Tenere is that it has a great mix of "Japanese Big Four" reliability and economy {both initial purchase price and cost of ownership}, plenty of dealerships, decent but not perfect in my eyes fuel range, "enough" engine/power and from what I've read, pretty decent handling both on and off tarmac. It also has a pretty wide ratio tranny,,,,, {the widest of the three I think} which I like since I would and do hit some pretty rough stuff.

Now believe me, I do like the Stelvio but it has it's drawbacks. It's not a "Japanese Big Four" bike with all that entails,,,,,,, that for what you want to read into it. If some don't see it that way, cool,,,,,, ain't gonna argue the point. I'll just say I've had wonderfull luck with the Big Fou,,,,, especially Yamaha and that's my opinion and experience. To get the super tanker I'm forced to buy the NTX and therefor, forced to buy options I would rather not,,,,, like the panniers, top box and lights. I don't like the extra initial cost nor the lack of dealer network. While adjusting the valves on a Guzzi is easy, you have to do it way too often and real life pretty much mirrors the stated valve adjustment intervals if ridden hard. If ridden sedately you might can stretch those valve adj. intervals to double the recommended but compared to the Yammy it maintenance intensive. I do like the air cooled twin with all it's cool character and for a non-"Japanese Big Four",,,,, Guzzis are fairly reliable. On tarmac handling is great from what I've read but many prefer the Tenere off tarmac.

The Explorer,,,,,, crappiest fuel range of all three.Handling on road is better than the Tenere I hear, not as good as the Stelvio on tarmac, sorta splits the difference I reckon. Best engine of the three but the other two have "enough" for me. Does have really cool factory cruise control {hello Yammy,,,,,, take the hint dammit} and while I haven't heard of any real reliability issues,,,,,,,,,,,,, it's not "Japanese Big Four" and the dealer network like Guzzi's,,,,, sucks. Does look good {thanks to Triumph's wise decision to keep the tank well under 6gals} but "purdy is as purdy does" IMO. I ride a DL for goodness sakes!Seriously though, "aesthetics" doesn't rank too high on my "wants' list when it comes to this type bike. If I wanted "purdy",,,, I would be procuring a nice Ducati 916 or a Guzzi Griso.just to look at.

Of the three, the Tenere seems like a "best fit" for me and I'll prolly end up with one if and when the FJR gets retired. My only real gripes{make that "wishes"} on the Tenere would be, yes,,,,,,,,,, a larger tank. Really would prefer to have a reliable fuel range of around 300 miles. Would also wish Yamaha would offer OEM cruise control. That's about it realistically which is why it's my favorite right now.


But,,,,, if I didn't need some level of off tarmac ability from my bike, I would be sticking with the FJR and if I had to get another bike {let's say it got totaled},,,, I would definitely buy another. A nice, cheap, low mile, pre-farkled, 1st gen. The FJR is a truly wonderful sport tourer for sure and if your touring doesn't include any real off tarmac riding and has plenty of twisties and long rural road mileage, you could do alot worse than a FJR. It has been one of my favorite bike.There now, back on topic after a short {yea, I know,,, long as hell} off-topic tangent!!!
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:56 AM   #2001
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Speaking of fuel range. When the manufacturer will not give one the fuel range one wants and the aftermarket either will not or they offer an aftermarket option that is out of your price range, what are your options?

Well, you can do like me and carry extra fuel in any number of ways {getting fairly ingenious at times} or you can modify your bike on one manner or another. Either mod the tank or add a fuel cell. I don't want to fiddle with a fuel cell so here's the gist of my question-

I have a XR650L with an aftermarket 4.7gal Clark tank. I drained the fuel out, turned the petcock to "off" , plugged off the gas cap vent and filled it full of very hot water and let sit till it cooled. It actually helped to enlarge the tank and now it holds nearly 5gals at reserve and to look at it, you can't really tell it. I'm sure I could have hit it with a regulated air source to help with the "swelling" and I would have seen even better results but at the time I was worried it might "swell" in the wrong places.

The Tenere has a metal tank and while you can section and weld to make it larger, that's honestly above my skill set and above my wallet to pay someone to do. I "wonder" if one could remove the fuel pump, jerry rig a plug {flat sheet of metal patterned after the fuel pump access hatch or simply, a non-functional pump} fill it full of water and freeze? I don't think I would try this on a nice, perfect tank but if I had a rough spare bought off e-bay or if mine were to get scuffed,,,,,, I might try it. I wonder if one might be able to add another .5 gallon or so like this?????

My luck it would split at one of the seams though!
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:25 AM   #2002
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here's a couple of possibilities for extending your fuel range. How often do you really need more than 200 though?

http://tourtank.com/TourTanks.html

http://www.rotopax.com/
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:12 AM   #2003
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The Tenere has a metal tank and while you can section and weld to make it larger, that's honestly above my skill set and above my wallet to pay someone to do. I "wonder" if one could remove the fuel pump, jerry rig a plug {flat sheet of metal patterned after the fuel pump access hatch or simply, a non-functional pump} fill it full of water and freeze? I don't think I would try this on a nice, perfect tank but if I had a rough spare bought off e-bay or if mine were to get scuffed,,,,,, I might try it. I wonder if one might be able to add another .5 gallon or so like this?????
Interesting idea. Your math is good - water increases in volume by about 9% when it freezes. I'd be concerned about distortion and/or cracking as cold steel can tend to be more brittle, but if you do the idea, please report back with the results.

- Mark
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:25 AM   #2004
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Yep, I've noticed the fuel range most are getting on their Teneres and Explorers and I know the Tenere isn't a GS or Stelvio grade super tanker but it's still getting on average, 20-40 miles more than the Explorer and while that might not sound like alot, it makes alot of difference to me....
Sounds like you've thought this through. I don't understand why the Japanese can't steal a page from the Euros book and offer more adventure-oriented versions of their bikes with bigger fuel tanks like BMW does with the GSA, but they just don't seem to do this. 300+ mile range is such a valuable thing in this class of bike.

I miss my FJR, but the S10 is a very capable pavement/freeway bike; I can't imagine the Explorer being that much better except for the cruise control.

In many ways, the S10 is better than the FJR for cruising as it has better heat control, a much narrower cockpit in the knee area, and much more legroom and ability to move around on the seat. What you lose is the effortless thrust and some weather protection. And the bike's vibes can occasionally be a bit intrusive - most of the time it is very smooth, but you have to use a lot of throttle to climb high-speed grades and tackle headwinds and the bike throbs a bit when you're really twisting on it, compared to the FJR which just shrugs and flies.

- Mark
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:12 AM   #2005
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Interesting idea. Your math is good - water increases in volume by about 9% when it freezes. I'd be concerned about distortion and/or cracking as cold steel can tend to be more brittle, but if you do the idea, please report back with the results.

- Mark
I wish I woulda thought of it before I painted the tank and put another pump in the DL. Woulda been the perfect test bed for the idea as the tank was pretty rough.
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:47 AM   #2006
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here's a couple of possibilities for extending your fuel range. How often do you really need more than 200 though?

http://tourtank.com/TourTanks.html

http://www.rotopax.com/
Know all about those options and quite a few more,,,,, which is the reason I want a fuel range in the 300 mile range but will settle for less out of a lack of options{the only bikes with long range tanks have their own set of drawbacks}.How often do I "need" a 200 mile range? You are right, not too often but what's "need" got to do with it? It's a want. Some want a 450lbs, 150hp "Adv Bike" and buy a MultiStrada. I look at my "Adv bike" in a more utilitarian way and having a long fuel range is more important to me than having 150hp or having a "pretty bike".

How often do you really need more than 150 miles? How about 100 miles? My wife did the Trans Lab on a Honda Ascot that has a 2.5gal tank that returns an effective 100 mile refill range, 125-135 miles till dead empty. I suppose you could make do with a 75 mile range in most of the lower 48 so my not have a 2gal tank? I'm sure that extra 20lbs less would really make the Triumph a light, svelte handler. The Starbucks crowd would be quite happy with the lack of "top heaviness" I reckon.


I'm not knocking on your post or making fun of you. Just putting your question in perspective.


BTW,,,,, it sucked big-uns having to tote another 2.5gals of fuel on the back of the DL for her. She also had quite a few 20 ounce gatorade and powerade bottles filled with fuel stuffed inside the spare tire. If I remember right we had dern near a gallon of fuel stuffed all the way around the inside of that spare! The beads of the tire held those bottles perfectly well too, even on the washboard of the Trans Lab!
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:16 AM   #2007
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Sounds like you've thought this through. I don't understand why the Japanese can't steal a page from the Euros book and offer more adventure-oriented versions of their bikes with bigger fuel tanks like BMW does with the GSA, but they just don't seem to do this. 300+ mile range is such a valuable thing in this class of bike.

I miss my FJR, but the S10 is a very capable pavement/freeway bike; I can't imagine the Explorer being that much better except for the cruise control.

In many ways, the S10 is better than the FJR for cruising as it has better heat control, a much narrower cockpit in the knee area, and much more legroom and ability to move around on the seat. What you lose is the effortless thrust and some weather protection. And the bike's vibes can occasionally be a bit intrusive - most of the time it is very smooth, but you have to use a lot of throttle to climb high-speed grades and tackle headwinds and the bike throbs a bit when you're really twisting on it, compared to the FJR which just shrugs and flies.

- Mark
Agree 100% as I think having a "safe" range in the 250-300 mile range "should" be a given on this type of bike. But manufactures come up with "top heavy" BS rather than throw some real engineering at the issue and the koolaid brigade swallows every bit of that BS with glee. If you dare to want for more and voice your opinion,,,, you're branded a odd bird outlier just bitching to bitch.

Thanks for the insight on the Tenere. Seriously, if Yamaha would add cruise and add a larger tank {even if they were fairly pricy options} it would be derned near perfect for what I want. My "Dream Team Garage" would be-

A Tenere for long haul and two up touring.

A KTM950/990 or GS800 {maybe a Tiger 800} for one up touring that would have alot of off tarmac exploring.

My XR650L with a few more mods or maybe a Husky630 for Baja and local playing.

Finally, a naked sportbike of some sort. I actually liked and wished I hadn't sold my Buell 1125CR. It had character and scooted around a track plenty fast while still being fairly comfy with taller bars, a decent seat and Ully pegs. Add soft luggage and it was my perfect sport tourer with the emphasis on sport. Could prolly deal with a Guzzi Griso too as they are purdy enough to offset the weight and lack of power.

Yep, I figure every one needs three to four bikes right? Maybe five since everyone needs an oldie but goodie to cruise about on and oh yea, make that six as everyone needs a light, small bore dualsport to take places that big ole XR650 is too big to be fun in right???????



Ohhhhh noooooooooo,,,,,,,,,, I have this bug bad don't I? Oh well, acceptance of your addiction is the first step in controlling right?????

Say all that BS,,,,, and to get back on topic. My FJR is derned near my perfect bike for tarmac only, sport touring. Yea, it's a bit hot in the summer but it hasn't bugged me like many and if it did, there are several things that can address the heat issue. Yea, I would love more power, better handling and less weight but those are things I never seem to get enough off but compared to other bikes, the FJR fares quite well especially once you shop the aftermarket for upgrades. For it's intended role, Ma Yamaha did good on the FJR in my opinion.
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:03 AM   #2008
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So who has done a valve lash check on their 2nd Gen FJR?
OK just had the 2nd valve check dun at just under 61K, 'n an exhaust on #4 wuz outta spec (Wuz @ .006, should be .007~.009) so now it's .008. Since the cams wuz out they brought another exhaust on #1 from .007 to .008.
Now I don't gotta do shit, butt gas tyres & oil (OK maybe sum suspension werk too?) fer another 30k
Day-am I luv this bike, cuz I can just ride the shit outta it!




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Old 09-22-2012, 11:16 AM   #2009
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:06 PM   #2010
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My valves were last checked at 32K and they still were within tolerance.

I would have lost count by now of how many times the valves were adjusted on my R1150R.
Just saying.
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