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Old 11-08-2008, 07:48 AM   #1
jack splash OP
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A Case for Starting Adventure Riding Clubs.

Although there's still some debate on whats really an adventure bike, a trail bike, or a dual sport bike etc, and the line between a Dual Sport and an Enduro bike is becoming fuzzy, there is no question that the big bikes like GS's and 950 Adventures are a different breed.


I think most riders would agree that some bikes are not suited for every type of event, or that some events are not a good idea on big bikes. Finding out how difficult the ride will be on your bike, and for your skill level is of utmost importance for your safety and well-being. The mindset of the group and riders laying out the course determines the type of event it will be. Some of the DS events are said to be” Big Bike Friendly", this is a matter of interpretation and where most of the issues start. Some clubs say their event is doable on Big Bikes only to boost attendance, other clubs events truly are doable. How does the average ADV rider know what he is getting him or herself into?


The AMA now has two non-competitive off-road series, the Dual Sport series and the Adventure Series. Most of the Dual Sport rides, at least here on the East Coast, are hosted by enduro clubs. They hold the DS rides to fund the club, who's charter requires they hold one enduro per year. The attendance at most of the Enduros has been down the last few years, so the DS rides help keep the Enduros, which sometimes lose money, from being cancelled.


The enduro clubs however are not really into Adventure Style rides, their members are 95% enduro riders, with a few ADV guys hanging around. The enduro guys really only want to do enduros, and ride single-track enduro type trails. Only a few members get behind the adventure rides, at least here on the east coast. Most of the Adventure series rides here on the East Coast are run by enduro clubs and are also DS events, with Hero sections and Big Bikes Go arounds, and it all works out most of the time.

Another issue is that there are only a handful of DS / ADV rides. Only a couple of dozen events in the USA for the whole year! So how do we get to ride more? My proposal is to start AMA Chartered Adventure Riding clubs. These clubs would be formed by inmates here and follow the model of the Enduro Clubs. Each Club would create an event or two per year, with the members laying out and working their event. Another way is for many ADV riders to join existing clubs and force a vote on having a real ADV ride.

I know there are pro's and con's to the AMA and forming "organizations". The fastest and easiest way to get a new ride going is to use the system that is already in place. Insurance is a must for anyone hosting an event, and the AMA's insurance is inexpensive and easy to obtain. I've had a few "discussions" with inmates here, about joining clubs or why an AMA sanction is important, some didn't go well, but over the years, most of them saw the light and joined an Enduro Club and have become productive members.

So let the debate begin.

Jack
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Old 11-08-2008, 12:54 PM   #2
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I absolutely agree with you. Most DS rides on the East Coast are by enduro riders, for enduro riders with plated smokers and woodsbikes. Granted, I love this fact because, I'm an enduro rider. BUT, I also give guided dual-sport tours for a living here in the Great Smoky Mountains of WNC/EastTn.

I have the mecca for each end of the spectrum here...offroad to adventure... and the pavement is really where it's at. My heart is in offroad, so I generally cater to the offroad crowd. My ride reports that I post often are mainly of offroad riding, but that's the image I portray and the customer that I bring in.

A little known fact, however, is that there is much more adventure type riding here in the mountains. I would like to portray that image more in my own business. I also think this is a great idea for the East Coast AMA DS rides. As far as just me on my end, I can offer much more adventure riding than true offroad.

I know the rest of the East could do the same. The ADV crowd definitely needs more DS events tuned to their needs, in the form of long-distance rally's and events of that type. Sure, I can give any customer a bad-ass 150-mile loop consisting of 75% offroad riding in any direction from my home base here in Waynesville, NC.

BUT...I can also give the ADV crowd a killer 500-mile 2-day rally/adventure ride. It's just not as well-known here in the East...folks think that Baja is the only place this can happen. Not true. I support your idea and agree.
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:29 PM   #3
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Thats it?

You guys are tough!

Check out the same title in the NorthEast Forum. At least there's some discussion.

bump.

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Old 11-10-2008, 06:55 PM   #4
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Adventure riding

Why not just join the HSTA? www.ridehsta.com

I've been a member for years and there are rides for just about anything you want. Trust me, there are PLENTY of good riders and great events for both street riding and off road riding. Any weekend of the year you can get a ride going with the guys in WNC and TN either DS or tearing up the twisties.

The nice part is they aren't a bunch of dumb asses that you have to fish out of a creek or haul their trashed bikes up a ravine every ride. Are they slow...ah NO!!!! There are a lot of ex racers but very sensible and like riding home after an event.

They have "non events" as well as AMA sanctioned ones for insurance reasons events.

The national president of the club lives right in Morganton.

The forum is very active and always a ride going on every weekend or even week days if you feel inclined.

Let Yanni do the secret stuff he is good at and support him. Try the HSTA for an event and see what you think.

There has been a big movement in the club with local members towards DS fire road type of riding.

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Old 11-10-2008, 07:23 PM   #5
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I would have to aggree that the DS events here are more trail oriented and the only reason they are listed as DS events is the need to run on state maintained roads to connect the trails to make the ride long enough to have a good attendence. I go to Uwharrie NF and can run all the trails there before lunch. I have done several Shendoah 500 DS rides (an AMA series event) put on by North Virgina Trail Riders Ass. (www.nvtr.com)
The event is well laid out and has the "Hero" sections clearly marked so the larger bikes can detour and still have a good ride.

If a group was started I would be interested in seeing how it would be set up and where the rides would be held. Most of the attraction to the AMA events is the route is marked and made easier to follow. A street ride can be done by anyone with a good map and can be done on their own limiting what a group can offer the weekend riders out for a nice street ride.

I will watch and see where this goes.

Ray
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:03 AM   #6
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DS riding and a club

Like I said...there already is a club that does just that and it is right here.

The HSTA has 3 sanctioned events that have DS routes. Nolichucky TN has a DS route. SE Star has kick ass DS routes. Etowah is 3 days of off road riding and is sometimes done 2 times a year.

This year the national event will be around Snowshoe and will have maybe 400 riders or more and there will definitely be DS riding.

The rides have different ways to get around the singletrack parts if that is what you need to do.

If you want to ride strictly paved, there are rides every weekend.

These are just the sanctioned events that are usually ride in Friday, ride all day Saturday, and ride home Sunday foor included sometimes.

Other than those, there is either a road ride or DS ride about every weekend in WNC or TN.

Maybe it would be easier to just join an existing club and get involved with it and make it suit your needs.

To me, it is a no brainer. If I want to ride DS next Tuesday , I just post on the site and there are replies as to where to meet and where is the food stop?

Why would I want to start a brand new club?

The nice thing about this one is that it has regional membership all across the USA that come together for events and support.

I have a club supplied "blue book" that lists everyone in the club. Want to ride in Ohio? Post on that site and some local will meet you in the woods. Break down in Kentucky? Call anyone on the KY list and I guarantee they or someone will show up with a trailer. It is THAT kind of club.

I don't need another one personally, but that is just me and a thousand or so others. Try the HSTA
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:19 PM   #7
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I think his main point is the direction of the AMA DS events, in which he is right. HSTA is a great club, but I don't think that's exactly what he's saying. Dedicated Adventure DS rides is what I'm hearing, under the AMA banner. That doesn't exist right now.

Anyone can hook up with me anytime they wish. But they can also run larger events. Most prefer the large events because of the social atmosphere. Hooking up with one or two peeps off a website is a far cry from riding the Shenendoah 500, even if you're running the same route.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni23
Dedicated Adventure DS rides is what I'm hearing,


ANY paid, organized, group ride has nothing to do with Adventure.

Adventure is a state of mind, that can be done on any type of bike. Owning a DS type bike does not make anyone an "Adventure" rider.

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Old 11-11-2008, 07:40 PM   #9
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Okay I'll put it another way. He means more of a ''rally'' style affair...i.e. long distance 50/50...as opposed to trail-hopping DS rides. ''Adventure'' is indeed a state of mind, but carries a different meaning in this discussion.

The term is being used to describe the type of riding. For example in a DDS ride: Adventure = 50/50; Dual-Sport = 85/15 in most cases.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:50 AM   #10
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Adventure riding

ANY paid, organized, group ride has nothing to do with Adventure.

Adventure is a state of mind, that can be done on any type of bike. Owning a DS type bike does not make anyone an "Adventure" rider


I guess you haven't been to one of our "non event" rides. Getting lost is usually the norm.
Maybe that is true on most other events. Do you have to ride by yourself to make it an adventure? On a DS bike, that is usually just not smart, so you are always following or leading.

I agree that running down the road following 20 others on a planned route isn't a real adventure for some, but it is for others. It all depends on who and where you are heading out with that makes it an adventure IMO.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:27 AM   #11
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Wink adventure is a state of mind

Couldn't agree more with dlrides observation above:

"Any paid, organized, group ride has nothing to do with Adventure.

Adventure is a state of mind, that can be done on any type of bike. Owning a DS type bike does not make anyone an "Adventure" rider.

Sheep follow each other around, on a path."

and would add: Get a map, a friend and strike out. It's amazing what you can find even in your own backyard.
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:41 PM   #12
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Now we're talking!

Sorry I've been missing. I had to do a unexpected trade show the last couple of days. I've read the posts quickly, but need to spend a little time reading them again to reply. But the real idea of the post is to get the discussion going about how to best create some more off-road events. The Shenendoah 500 is a great event from what I've heard. It's events like that, that I talking about.

Here's a link to the Northeast Thread.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=404497

Also, remember the state laws are different up here in the NorthEast. The issues with insurance and permits may not apply down buy you guys. But that should make it easier to create an event.

I'll get back here soon. "Talk amongst yourselves" for now.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:34 PM   #13
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Planning

Ya'll can talk about it. I'm going riding and don't really give a shit where I end up as long as there is food and a bed when I am done.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyedragaknee
Ya'll can talk about it. I'm going riding and don't really give a shit where I end up as long as there is food and a bed when I am done.


I'm in .

Nice to have a pal ride aliong , but real adventure is spawned in the heart of one , and epitomized in same said solo heart .
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:41 AM   #15
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In My Humble Opinion!

Some good points here.


The HSTA seems to be doing some rides, but seem to be street orientated, and least at first glance.


The quote from dlrides:

"Any paid, organized, group ride has nothing to do with Adventure.

Adventure is a state of mind, that can be done on any type of bike. Owning a DS type bike does not make anyone an "Adventure" rider.

Sheep follow each other around, on a path."

and another from eyedragaknee

Ya'll can talk about it. I'm going riding and don't really give a shit where I end up as long as there is food and a bed when I am done.


I'm a lucky guy, there's great riding 20 minutes from my house. Some guys have it even better, they can ride right out of their back yard.
I also had a lot of time over the years to explore and find that there are some great trails and gravels roads, and some"not so great" or worse. I'm a Dakar wannabe, so I created a 300 mile loop to practice on. The route was mostly sand and gravel fire roads and jeep trails in state forests, the plan was to ride it over and over to get in shape. After riding it a few times, improving it each time, saying, hey if I add that road instead of this one, it will be more fun. After a few more laps, over the course of a few months, I said to myself, that was really fun, maybe some other guys would like to ride it too. I put a post up on advrider and 20 guys showed up, they loved it. Five years later, we have the Pine Barrens 500.

www.pinebarrens500.org


I go out riding myself or with a friend or two often, thats when I have the most fun. On the other hand, some of my best rides have been far away from my state, in Canada or Virginia. Just 2 weeks ago, I had a great ride at another clubs DS ride. It would not have been possible for me to have the kind of ride I did, without the local organization, that put together an "event" and inviting "visitors" .

Some guys are not as lucky as me, they don't have the time, or the proximity to good riding, but they have the same desire to ride the type of events I'm talking about. THe point of my posts is to try to get guys like you to create events, either by joining and existing organization or create a group, and share what you got. You can roll the event as a charity or fund raising thing, whatever the reason, "if you build it, they will come".

I know not everyone feels the same way I do, and thats fine, I don't fault you. Some guys like to go away and ride with a bunch of like minded people, meet some new ones and BS and at the same time, have a great riding experience.

Others would rather be left alone and keep the "good stuff" for themselves. Believe me I know how bringing in "outsiders" can "F" things up. But that applies to everything. There's givers and takers everywhere.
It's what "you" do that makes the difference.

Jack
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jack splash screwed with this post 11-13-2008 at 07:08 AM
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