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Old 04-05-2011, 09:35 AM   #16546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellydoug View Post
Yes, even the .257 is $72 a box. You have to reload it to shoot it. I just set up the skyscreens and juggle powder until I match velocity per bullet weight with the factory loadings. Simple, cheap, and it works.
Expensive loads story ensues, I was at the Monterey shooting range one day when they still allowed guns in California. I was shooting my GP100 and a 10-22 and a guy rolls in in a newer Lamborghini. He jumps out and hauls out two real nice boxes that obviously had NICE high end rifles in them, and a smaller range bag that had pistols in it.

He gets tot he range and whips out two P08s that looked brand new and were from WWII. Opens a rifle box and whips out a French Double in .375H&H. I stopped shooting and doubled up on hearing protection, and then proceeded to watch.

He shot the .375 ONCE. He took it back apart with the same N00B trouble he put it together with and put it away. He just was going to leave the other rifle in the box but I asked him what it was.

He says it is a .577 Kynoch Express, and after shooting the ,.375 there was no way he would shoot the .577!

He offered for me to give it a go and I accepted. It was interesting!

Fisrt off the round is huge both in diameter and length and is weird looking because it looks like a tank round.

It isn't harsh as in slappy, it is a BIG push. I shot it four times.

At the itme, a box of five .577 Kynoch Nitro Express cost about $475.00.

Oh, and he said the .577 rifle was worth $425.000.00.
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:39 AM   #16547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellydoug View Post
Trapdoor Springfield rifle. Fun rifles to shoot!
Thank you. Looking at this website http://www.schiferli.net/Springfield%20Trapdoor.htm It is the gun with the Buffington rear sight.

Thanks everyone.
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:39 AM   #16548
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Originally Posted by ajayhawkfan View Post
A few more pictures:







Ok detectives tell me about the gun.
Talk to Gen. Custer :)

Out of date when issued in an era when repeating weapons are starting to show up. A good rifle but out dated when put into the field. Seems that most of those cost save ideas usually cost lives.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:02 AM   #16549
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By the time Custer's troopers were issued that rifle, it was common to have to pry the case of the just fired round out of the breech with your knife so that you can reload...

Not conducive to rapid follow up shots, especially when you have a couple thousand angry Indians trying to do their very best to carry your scalp home.

There was a story I read somewhere of a small band of soldiers and civilians who were out somewhere away from their Army fort; soldiers armed with Springfield Trapdoors, and a particular civilian (I think he was a scout/tracker) armed with a Henry and a few hundred rounds of ammo. They were attaked by a sizable group of Indians (do not recall the tribe). The shooter of the Henry was responsible for killing more than 200 indians during that episode.

Such an ugly, ugly period in our history.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:39 AM   #16550
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Originally Posted by East Coast Rider View Post
Indians trying to do their very best to carry your scalp home...........

Such an ugly, ugly period in our history.
we all have them mate. (it was us brits who taught them to scalp!)
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:44 AM   #16551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East Coast Rider View Post
By the time Custer's troopers were issued that rifle, it was common to have to pry the case of the just fired round out of the breech with your knife so that you can reload...

Not conducive to rapid follow up shots, especially when you have a couple thousand angry Indians trying to do their very best to carry your scalp home.

There was a story I read somewhere of a small band of soldiers and civilians who were out somewhere away from their Army fort; soldiers armed with Springfield Trapdoors, and a particular civilian (I think he was a scout/tracker) armed with a Henry and a few hundred rounds of ammo. They were attaked by a sizable group of Indians (do not recall the tribe). The shooter of the Henry was responsible for killing more than 200 indians during that episode.

Such an ugly, ugly period in our history.
it was the Trapdoor being shitty that started the profitability of selling Henry rifles to the Indians.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:01 AM   #16552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East Coast Rider View Post
There was a story I read somewhere of a small band of soldiers and civilians who were out somewhere away from their Army fort; soldiers armed with Springfield Trapdoors, and a particular civilian (I think he was a scout/tracker) armed with a Henry and a few hundred rounds of ammo. They were attaked by a sizable group of Indians (do not recall the tribe). The shooter of the Henry was responsible for killing more than 200 indians during that episode.

Such an ugly, ugly period in our history.
Yep, An old trick the Indians used was to kind of play peekaboo with solders to draw there fire and when they shot attack from all sides. That doesnt work with a henry and lots of ammo.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:25 AM   #16553
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I don't know the Henry/Winchester history that well, I know that the guy that came up with the henry system worked for winchester/was bought out by winchester.....something, but winchester did not want to put his name on the rifle, just incase it was a failure....IIRC. Also IIRC all Henry rifles at the time of the civil war where rim fire cartridges. After the civil war, and during the indian wars the rifle moved from rim to center fire. I would think by the 1880's when little bighorn happened the henry would have been outdated....again I don't know for sure.

I also know that the army was slow to the table on auto loading rifles....it felt the troops would waste ammo.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:29 AM   #16554
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Originally Posted by FPGT72 View Post
I don't know the Henry/Winchester history that well, I know that the guy that came up with the henry system worked for winchester/was bought out by winchester.....something, but winchester did not want to put his name on the rifle, just incase it was a failure....IIRC. Also IIRC all Henry rifles at the time of the civil war where rim fire cartridges. After the civil war, and during the indian wars the rifle moved from rim to center fire. I would think by the 1880's when little bighorn happened the henry would have been outdated....again I don't know for sure.

I also know that the army was slow to the table on auto loading rifles....it felt the troops would waste ammo.
Which was reportedly the reason some Union officers had to buy gattling guns with their own money.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:35 AM   #16555
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One of a few rifles I own...probably my favorite. It's mostly my "Out West" rifle since it's overkill for most places around here.

Browning A-Bolt Medallion in .325 WSM w/ Leupold VX-III 3.5x10x50.





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Old 04-05-2011, 11:38 AM   #16556
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same with the henry rifles at first ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Which was reportedly the reason some Union officers had to buy gattling guns with their own money.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:43 AM   #16557
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I remember back when I worked the shows in FLA, the boys from Mexico would snatch up 1911s in 9 and even more so if in 38 super. Back then we couldn't give them away in the shop, so we'd keep them for the legal residents from Mexico that we'd see at the shows. I wish I didn't have my head as far up my ass as I did back then. I'd love a 1911-9 now.
Wish I could slap an 9mm "upper" on my 1911.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:20 PM   #16558
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Originally Posted by FPGT72 View Post
I don't know the Henry/Winchester history that well, I know that the guy that came up with the henry system worked for winchester/was bought out by winchester.....something, but winchester did not want to put his name on the rifle, just incase it was a failure....IIRC. Also IIRC all Henry rifles at the time of the civil war where rim fire cartridges. After the civil war, and during the indian wars the rifle moved from rim to center fire. I would think by the 1880's when little bighorn happened the henry would have been outdated....again I don't know for sure.

I also know that the army was slow to the table on auto loading rifles....it felt the troops would waste ammo.
The Battle of the Little Bighorn was in 1876. I believe the Colt Single Action Army was adopted in 1873 or thereabouts, and the faster loading Schofield had been rejected due to cost. I do not know the genesis of the Trapdoor Springfield or what its competitors were, but it is true that this gun was essentially obsolete from the outset because of the single-shot feature. Henrys and Spencers were repeaters that had been available for over a decade by the time the Trapdoor was adopted, so the Army overlooked technology in favor of cost and tradition, unfortunately.

As far as adopting auto loading rifles, I think the US was pretty on top of that one, at least compared to other world powers. Look at the primary rifles of WW2. The US had the Garand whereas Japan, Germany, Russia, Great Britain, Italy, France and every other country involved in that conflict as best I can recollect used bolt-action rifles as their primary infantry service rifle. Some commentators claim that the Garand gave US infantrymen a huge advantage over their opponents.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:26 PM   #16559
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As far as adopting auto loading rifles, I think the US was pretty on top of that one, at least compared to other world powers. Look at the primary rifles of WW2. The US had the Garand whereas Japan, Germany, Russia, Great Britain, Italy, France and every other country involved in that conflict as best I can recollect used bolt-action rifles as their primary infantry service rifle. Some commentators claim that the Garand gave US infantrymen a huge advantage over their opponents.[/QUOTE]

I think it was Gen. George Patton who said the garand was THE best battle invention of all time.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:27 PM   #16560
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[/QUOTE]
Nice, how does it shoot?
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