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Old 05-18-2011, 11:35 AM   #17491
HardCase
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
That's bad news for me. I'm going to have to spread the word that these are junk, so that I can still sell my AR-15 at a decent price.
You may have missed the boat on that one.....at least this time around. But just wait, there'll be another "scare" one of these days following some mass shooting, or Obama will be re-elected in '12, and you can cash in then!
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:51 AM   #17492
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Originally Posted by HardCase View Post
You may have missed the boat on that one.....at least this time around. But just wait, there'll be another "scare" one of these days following some mass shooting, or Obama will be re-elected in '12, and you can cash in then!
Yep, I'm going to be voting for him as many times as I can just to ensure that happens.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:20 PM   #17493
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Originally Posted by HardCase View Post
Say, just the other day I was visiting a shop down the road in Missoula and looked at/handled a Colt AR15 in 9mm configuration. I was aware that Colt used to make these, but the clerk claimed it was brand new current-production stuff. Oddly, it has an A1 upper, the old style carrying-handle/sights, and was equipped with a 16" barrel and a collapsing stock. I think having one of these in 9x19 would be fun, but the $1100 price tag put me off. Does anyone here have any recent experience or current knowledge of sub-caliber ARs?

They're making them on a limited basis, good shooters.

I've got a Colt and an RRA 9mm. I like the RRA a little bit better.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:44 PM   #17494
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What is hilarious is all the people that bought the AR's because they thought that a ban was under way.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:58 PM   #17495
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Originally Posted by PolloAsado View Post
What is hilarious is all the people that bought the AR's because they thought that a ban was under way.
Or filled their basement with WalMart 9mm cuz Obama was gonna take their gunz (and apparently make ammo illegal as well).

Pretty sure that rumor was started by Remington and Winchester...
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:46 PM   #17496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCase View Post
Say, just the other day I was visiting a shop down the road in Missoula and looked at/handled a Colt AR15 in 9mm configuration. I was aware that Colt used to make these, but the clerk claimed it was brand new current-production stuff. Oddly, it has an A1 upper, the old style carrying-handle/sights, and was equipped with a 16" barrel and a collapsing stock. I think having one of these in 9x19 would be fun, but the $1100 price tag put me off. Does anyone here have any recent experience or current knowledge of sub-caliber ARs?

I've got an Olympic Arms A1 upper in 9mm. It has an 11.5" barrel and a welded flash hider to make a 16" barrel. That is my preferred training tool for carbine training out to 100 yds or for indoor training. Great handling, lightweight, virtually no recoil or muzzle blast. 124 NATO spec loads run around 1450fps, so it isn't a slouch in terms of knock down power. It is a blowback design, so +P+ or Hirtenberger subgun ammo can cause problems- but it loves +P. If you look around, you can buy a 9MM upper for around $500- the mag block costs around $80 (they typically just drop into the mag well from the top and are set up for various stick mags). Throw that on your favorite AR lower and have a blast. Mine uses Sten mags which run around $9 each at the gun shows.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:48 PM   #17497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSJEEPER View Post
Or filled their basement with WalMart 9mm cuz Obama was gonna take their gunz (and apparently make ammo illegal as well).

Pretty sure that rumor was started by Remington and Winchester...
nothing wrong with having extra ammo says me.....but for me it would have been .45acp...
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #17498
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Originally Posted by HardCase View Post
Most serious AR shooters will tell you that the forward assist is a useless appendage. If the gun gets so dirty that you need to use it you've let it go far too long, and chances are good that if you do use it to seat a round you'll then have a jammed gun after firing that round. A number of years ago I ordered a custom AR for IPSC 3-gun competition when that sport was just getting started, and was given the option of with or without forward assist. After talking to the gun-maker (John Paul of JP Enterprises, a long time competitive shooter himself) about it I opted to order the gun without, and never had a problem with it. Also, read what Zedicker has to say about it in his excellent book "The Mouse that Roared: The Competitive AR-15"
The forward assist is only useful if you are using garbage ammo AND you catch the issue before you pull the trigger. AR's will allow the hammer to release out of battery, so if you don't notice that the round wasn't fully chambered and then you hit the forward assist, you will find yourself with a round trapped in the chamber and no way to fire it unless you pull the rear take down pin and re-cock the hammer manually. Let's just say I bought some out-of-spec reloads and got very good at this drill.....
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:18 PM   #17499
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Hey all, I'm on page 545 of this thread but need to jump in to ask a quick question.

I'm looking at a Colt Python for sale on consignment at a local gun shop and noticed that the original wood grips are kind of loose, like I can slightly move the grips in the frame.

I thought it was just that the screw wasn't tight enough but I had them tighten it and then remove the grips entirely to take a look inside. It turns out that the grip interior shape doesn't quite sit around the frame perfectly, the few extra mm allowing the movement.

One guy at the shop said that was normal to all pythons because Colt didn't machine out all the parts uniformly, or something like that.

Anyone have any info to share? I've shot a S&W .357 at the range and there was nothing even close to play in the grips. At $1200 this Python (no box, but good blueing) probably shouldn't have wiggle in the hands. Or maybe that is how they are?
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:33 PM   #17500
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Originally Posted by enjine View Post
Hey all, I'm on page 545 of this thread but need to jump in to ask a quick question.

I'm looking at a Colt Python for sale on consignment at a local gun shop and noticed that the original wood grips are kind of loose, like I can slightly move the grips in the frame.

I thought it was just that the screw wasn't tight enough but I had them tighten it and then remove the grips entirely to take a look inside. It turns out that the grip interior shape doesn't quite sit around the frame perfectly, the few extra mm allowing the movement. Sounds like it is an aftermarket Chicom set of grips to make it LOOK like the grips are stock since that technically makes the gun worth more if the grips are stock. A clean set of Python grips seels for 300 dollars themselves if they are REAL Colt Python grips. Is the medallion gold or silver?

One guy at the shop said that was normal to all pythons because Colt didn't machine out all the parts uniformly, or something like that. He is full of shit. The Python to this day is the most highly machined perfected revolver ever made.

Anyone have any info to share? I've shot a S&W .357 at the range and there was nothing even close to play in the grips. At $1200 this Python (no box, but good blueing) probably shouldn't have wiggle in the hands. Or maybe that is how they are?
Is this a 2.5, 4in or 6in Python, and what vintage is it?

Get me the serail number and I'll date it for you.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:45 PM   #17501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enjine View Post
Hey all, I'm on page 545 of this thread but need to jump in to ask a quick question.

I'm looking at a Colt Python for sale on consignment at a local gun shop and noticed that the original wood grips are kind of loose, like I can slightly move the grips in the frame.

I thought it was just that the screw wasn't tight enough but I had them tighten it and then remove the grips entirely to take a look inside. It turns out that the grip interior shape doesn't quite sit around the frame perfectly, the few extra mm allowing the movement.

One guy at the shop said that was normal to all pythons because Colt didn't machine out all the parts uniformly, or something like that.

Anyone have any info to share? I've shot a S&W .357 at the range and there was nothing even close to play in the grips. At $1200 this Python (no box, but good blueing) probably shouldn't have wiggle in the hands. Or maybe that is how they are?
Colt quality has been spotty over the years, especially the Pythons, in my experience. Some are really great and some are just put together really badly. Maybe because the Pythons have always been pricey you tend to notice stuff more. I had a fellow club member that had an 80's vintage SS Python that he was really proud of that started to spit lead really badly. The gun was less than 6 months old with no more than 500 or so .38 rounds thru it. He had me look at it and mentioned that the front sight was crooked, too. When I checked it, the barrel was tight, but not fitted so that the rib and the sight were aligned with the frame when it was screwed all the way in. This caused the sight to cant noticeably. I did not even check the timing, and recommended he return the gun to Colt for warranty work. He got it back some time later and found that to repair it, they just filed the side of the sight so that it matched the angle of the mis-alignment on the other side. Still spit lead like crazy, too.

I can believe that they probably were not too careful with making the stocks fit, either. That would be easy to fix with a bit of epoxy and release compound to "glass bed" them.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:47 PM   #17502
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Originally Posted by Sniper X View Post
He is full of shit. The Python to this day is the most highly machined perfected revolver ever made.
Exactly what I was thinking but I'm new to handguns so I thought I'd remain open to the possibility, walk out of the store after inspection and hit up the internet for some more answers. The reason I'm in the market for this specific gun is because of the dual caliber and that exact reason above ^

I don't remember the serial exactly but the first time I went in I remembered it was something like E78.... and looked that up on the internet which dated it to the mid-70s.

Anyone have basic buying advice (for a used shooter) other than find a local friend who can help?

Oh, ... and 6" blue is what I'm looking for/at.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:49 PM   #17503
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Originally Posted by Andyinhilo View Post
That would be easy to fix with a bit of epoxy and release compound to "glass bed" them.
Yes, that is exactly what the guy at the store said to do, but I didn't know what that meant.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:11 PM   #17504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enjine View Post
Exactly what I was thinking but I'm new to handguns so I thought I'd remain open to the possibility, walk out of the store after inspection and hit up the internet for some more answers. The reason I'm in the market for this specific gun is because of the dual caliber and that exact reason above ^

I don't remember the serial exactly but the first time I went in I remembered it was something like E78.... and looked that up on the internet which dated it to the mid-70s.

Anyone have basic buying advice (for a used shooter) other than find a local friend who can help?

Oh, ... and 6" blue is what I'm looking for/at.
The E series is around the mid 1970s. If it is gold medallions on the grips, then take a pic and I can tell you if they are Chinese or real. Chances are, if they don't fit well, then they are not stock to the gun since the stocks should fit perfectly. Early Pythons are way better made than those in the 1980s and later.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:14 PM   #17505
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[QUOTE=Andyinhilo;15945310]Colt quality has been spotty over the years, especially the Pythons, in my experience. Some are really great and some are just put together really badly. Maybe because the Pythons have always been pricey you tend to notice stuff more. I had a fellow club member that had an 80's vintage SS Python that he was really proud of that started to spit lead really badly. The gun was less than 6 months old with no more than 500 or so .38 rounds thru it. He had me look at it and mentioned that the front sight was crooked, too. When I checked it, the barrel was tight, but not fitted so that the rib and the sight were aligned with the frame when it was screwed all the way in. This caused the sight to cant noticeably. I did not even check the timing, and recommended he return the gun to Colt for warranty work. He got it back some time later and found that to repair it, they just filed the side of the sight so that it matched the angle of the mis-alignment on the other side. Still spit lead like crazy, too.


That's funny, I have shot probably 100 different Pythons, and have owned a few. I have never shot one that wasn't stellar no matter what the vintage. I have noticed the trigger and action is better on the Pythons manufacturered prior to the 1980s. I have never seen a Python that "spit lead" unless it had many thousands of rounds thru it and needed to be retimed.
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