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Old 12-04-2011, 10:29 AM   #22306
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Originally Posted by zuk16l View Post
I recently acquired a Ruger 10/22 and when I opened the box there was a form from Ruger looking for older single action rrevolvers that are eligible for a safety retrofit. I happen to have one of the older SA Blackhawks that qualify and wonder if anyone has sent there pistols in for the refit?

Travis
Don't do it! You'll wreck the collector's value and wind up with a crappy trigger pull. All Ruger is trying to do is prevent lawsuits from people too fucking stupid to carry one properly with 5 rounds loaded and the hammer down on an empty chamber.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:18 AM   #22307
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Originally Posted by NDEBT View Post
It doesn't get much better than that. I might get flamed for this but I think the ultra high dollar scopes are overated in real world hunting.
Or even for benchrest accuracy shooting. I had my Savage 12 BVSS .308 outfitted with a medium cost ($350) Sightron 36x scope and very good Burris mounts. I got tired of it a couple months ago and took a Tru-Glo 36x ($75) off one of my Ruger 10/22s and like it better. And the groups at 100 yds (0.3-0.5") are just as good. It has no caps on the adjustment knobs and a better reticule for my eyes. No way would I pay $700-1000 for a scope like many people do I chat with at the ranges.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:57 AM   #22308
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Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
Or even for benchrest accuracy shooting. I had my Savage 12 BVSS .308 outfitted with a medium cost ($350) Sightron 36x scope and very good Burris mounts. I got tired of it a couple months ago and took a Tru-Glo 36x ($75) off one of my Ruger 10/22s and like it better. And the groups at 100 yds (0.3-0.5") are just as good. It has no caps on the adjustment knobs and a better reticule for my eyes. No way would I pay $700-1000 for a scope like many people do I chat with at the ranges.
I would be willing to bet the big difference between the cheap and expensive scopes is the ability to same point after making changes. Try this with the cheap scope; shoot 5 rounds at a 100 yards, adjust the scope up by 8 clicks, then 8 clicks to the left, followed by 8 clicks down, and finally 8 clicks right. Shoot 5 more rounds and I bet the cheap scope doesn't place them in the same spot. Most folks tend to get a scope sighted in and then leave it the hell alone which means a cheap scope would work just fine. Others need that ability to return to zero.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:09 PM   #22309
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Originally Posted by NDEBT View Post
It doesn't get much better than that. I might get flamed for this but I think the ultra high dollar scopes are overated in real world hunting.
It depends on how you are using it and what you are using it on. I am not going to put a $100 scope on my .50 BMG rifle for several reasons:

1) I think it would fall apart in short order from the recoil.

2) At the longer ranges is where the quality of a high priced scope will start to show a difference.

3) Very few variable scopes go up to 40+X magnification.

On some guns recoil is an issue and cheap scopes tend to fall apart. Other times the sealing of the scope is done poorly and you get moisture inside the scope. If I were on a high priced hunt in Alaska or Africa I wouldn't want the hunt to be ruined because my scope got foggy inside or it wouldn't hold zero.

That said, today's inexpensive scopes are often as good or better than premium scopes of 3 or 4 decades ago.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:09 PM   #22310
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Originally Posted by zuk16l View Post
I recently acquired a Ruger 10/22 and when I opened the box there was a form from Ruger looking for older single action rrevolvers that are eligible for a safety retrofit. I happen to have one of the older SA Blackhawks that qualify and wonder if anyone has sent there pistols in for the refit?

Travis
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Don't do it! You'll wreck the collector's value and wind up with a crappy trigger pull. All Ruger is trying to do is prevent lawsuits from people too fucking stupid to carry one properly with 5 rounds loaded and the hammer down on an empty chamber.
Never mind that the original hammer has a safety position that would require shearing the sear or bending the hammer to get the firing pin to strike a primer.

I have my dad's un-modded Blackhawk in .30 carbine. It has the finest trigger I've ever pulled on a handgun. I'm not interested in letting Ruger mess that up.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:22 PM   #22311
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Originally Posted by CodeMonkee View Post
It depends on how you are using it and what you are using it on. I am not going to put a $100 scope on my .50 BMG rifle for several reasons:

1) I think it would fall apart in short order from the recoil.

2) At the longer ranges is where the quality of a high priced scope will start to show a difference.

3) Very few variable scopes go up to 40+X magnification.

On some guns recoil is an issue and cheap scopes tend to fall apart. Other times the sealing of the scope is done poorly and you get moisture inside the scope. If I were on a high priced hunt in Alaska or Africa I wouldn't want the hunt to be ruined because my scope got foggy inside or it wouldn't hold zero.

That said, today's inexpensive scopes are often as good or better than premium scopes of 3 or 4 decades ago.
I know that people do hunt (especially elk) with the .50BMG, but I don't think that's what he's talking about.

I get the <$200 Leupolds now. Same warranty as the high-dollar stuff. They work just as good as my 14x Nikon, and I can see great as far out as I can shoot accurately with a 3-9x40. I had a Bushnell that would creep badly (8" @50 in 10 rounds) on my 17HMR so I stopped using the cheapo scopes.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:42 PM   #22312
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
I would be willing to bet the big difference between the cheap and expensive scopes is the ability to same point after making changes. Try this with the cheap scope; shoot 5 rounds at a 100 yards, adjust the scope up by 8 clicks, then 8 clicks to the left, followed by 8 clicks down, and finally 8 clicks right. Shoot 5 more rounds and I bet the cheap scope doesn't place them in the same spot. Most folks tend to get a scope sighted in and then leave it the hell alone which means a cheap scope would work just fine. Others need that ability to return to zero.

Why in the hell would I want to do all that? A hole in paper is just that. If I can drop a yote at 250 it really does not matter to me. Once I have a scope were I want it It stays on the gun.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:46 PM   #22313
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
I would be willing to bet the big difference between the cheap and expensive scopes is the ability to same point after making changes. Try this with the cheap scope; shoot 5 rounds at a 100 yards, adjust the scope up by 8 clicks, then 8 clicks to the left, followed by 8 clicks down, and finally 8 clicks right. Shoot 5 more rounds and I bet the cheap scope doesn't place them in the same spot. Most folks tend to get a scope sighted in and then leave it the hell alone which means a cheap scope would work just fine. Others need that ability to return to zero.
The step click method will identify the better quality horizontal and vertical controls. I have done this with my scopes. The Tru-Glos will have some slop when moving from one aim point to another and back, but once it is sighted in it will stay on the same POI just fine. All I am concerned with usually is getting zeroed on one standard USBR target circle and getting a good group. My shooting is about getting the most out of my Savage .308 and my handloads. My wife can put three shots in less than .25" when things are working right on the rifle (I am more impatient with trigger pull than she is). The big challenge on the Savage is cleaning the barrel often and getting the harmonics of the barrel under control.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:59 PM   #22314
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
I would be willing to bet the big difference between the cheap and expensive scopes is the ability to same point after making changes. Try this with the cheap scope; shoot 5 rounds at a 100 yards, adjust the scope up by 8 clicks, then 8 clicks to the left, followed by 8 clicks down, and finally 8 clicks right. Shoot 5 more rounds and I bet the cheap scope doesn't place them in the same spot. Most folks tend to get a scope sighted in and then leave it the hell alone which means a cheap scope would work just fine. Others need that ability to return to zero.
Yes, the 'box' test. I'm pretty sure my china special will not pass the box test, but I don't really need it to. I can see the benchrest guys or even long range hunters needing that, along with the better optics. Mine is a 4-16x scope, but past about 12x it starts to get tunnel vision and the eye relief shortens up. I'm pretty much stuck at 200-300 yards max with the 22-250 here in Iowa anyway. Any farther than that here has you shooting over roads or at a farmhouse.
It holds zero and there's not much recoil from the two-fiddy to tear it up, so it will work for now!
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:35 PM   #22315
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Originally Posted by NDEBT View Post
Why in the hell would I want to do all that? A hole in paper is just that. If I can drop a yote at 250 it really does not matter to me. Once I have a scope were I want it It stays on the gun.
My point is that for most folks, like yourself, the cheap scopes work just fine because once you sight the scope it doesn't change.

The high power matches used to only allow open sights and good open sights aren't cheap since you'll have different elevation settings for the 200, 300, and 600 yard courses of fire. Many of the matches are now allowing folks to use scopes because some people are no longer capable of using open sights, but still wish to compete. These scopes need to be able to change elevation settings repeatably. Then there's the military and police who need to be able to determine a distance and adjust their scope based on previous knowledge. I know the mil-dot reticle comes into play, but it's not the only answer.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:37 PM   #22316
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It was a great training device, wasn't it.
It was good enough to help me decide whether or not I want continue loading. After loading about 100 rounds with the Rock Chucker I'm pretty sure I won't play with the Lyman much now
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:43 PM   #22317
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Originally Posted by NDEBT View Post
Why in the hell would I want to do all that? A hole in paper is just that. If I can drop a yote at 250 it really does not matter to me. Once I have a scope were I want it It stays on the gun.
because if the scope won't pass that simple test, it will come out of Zero in a few shots even if you never adjust the windage or range.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:48 PM   #22318
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
I would be willing to bet the big difference between the cheap and expensive scopes is the ability to same point after making changes. Try this with the cheap scope; shoot 5 rounds at a 100 yards, adjust the scope up by 8 clicks, then 8 clicks to the left, followed by 8 clicks down, and finally 8 clicks right. Shoot 5 more rounds and I bet the cheap scope doesn't place them in the same spot. Most folks tend to get a scope sighted in and then leave it the hell alone which means a cheap scope would work just fine. Others need that ability to return to zero.
It all depends, I have had cheap scopes that never have one problem with rezeroing, and expensive ones that would not re zero worth a shit.. The one biggest thing one USUALLY notices as a difference in a cheap and expensive scope is the clarity, and low light ability of an expensive scope over a cheap one.However, some cheap scopes are now so close to more expensive ones people usually have to spend a grand or more on a scope to notice the difference.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:57 PM   #22319
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My 10 year old nephew's first time shooting my AR Pistol. He was doing great, shooting down clays at 50 and 100 yds.

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Old 12-04-2011, 03:16 PM   #22320
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However, some cheap scopes are now so close to more expensive ones people usually have to spend a grand or more on a scope to notice the difference.
My sample size is small, but that's been my experience. I've got a couple of cheap scopes (<$100) and what to me is a nice Bushnell 4200 that cost me about $450. I've not noticed much difference in the optics, at least not $300+ worth, but the ability to return to zero is possible on my Bushnell and not possible on my other scopes.
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