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Old 07-14-2013, 12:50 PM   #30001
RonS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I have a CZ Bobwhite (I wanted a SxS, not O/U). I like it a lot. I've read good and bad (but more good). Seems (for the most part) those that own CZ shotguns tend to like them and those that don't own them don't like Turkish guns in general.
Snobs. Most of us just want a nice shotgun that fits us, shoots well and does not blow up in our face but there is a lot of snobbery in trap and skeet. Some people think anything less than a $3000 Browning (Japanese shotgun) or a Beretta (Italian shotgun) is shit. Some people think that anything less than a $5000-$8000 Kerieghoff or Caesar Guerini is shit. The only ones who don't give a shit are the ones who own Purdy's or Perugini & Visini Armi's. They can have anything they want and they don't give a shit about what kind of toys we peasants buy
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:00 PM   #30002
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My best friend shoots a Beretta O/U and Browning semi-auto. He's a shotgun snob, but at the end of the day, for us anyway, it's about knocking down birds. He's proud of his guns, but he's more excited about shooting pheasants with good friends, so we get along.

I have a Rem 870 Express and CZ Bobwhite (and a couple other shotguns), BUT, if I was buying the gun of my dreams it'd be a Basque shotgun, an AyA. They aren't the most expensive, but for some reason they are my favorite (probably because my wife's family comes from the region).
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:36 PM   #30003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
My best friend shoots a Beretta O/U and Browning semi-auto. He's a shotgun snob, but at the end of the day, for us anyway, it's about knocking down birds. He's proud of his guns, but he's more excited about shooting pheasants with good friends, so we get along.

I have a Rem 870 Express and CZ Bobwhite (and a couple other shotguns), BUT, if I was buying the gun of my dreams it'd be a Basque shotgun, an AyA. They aren't the most expensive, but for some reason they are my favorite (probably because my wife's family comes from the region).
AyA's are nice guns. I've never owned one but they seem to be well thought of. The shotgun world is a lot like the fly fishing world where if you don't own the very best you can't be taken seriously and are looked down upon as a result. Fuck that, my Redhead shoots well at only the price of a couple of sets of motorcycle tires rather than the price of the latest and greatest ubber adventure bike.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:12 PM   #30004
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CZ Bobwhite

I also have a CZ Bobwhite. I'm lefthanded and the stock fits me nicely, unlike some others I tried. I also like the double triggers and the English straight stock.

I lived in Turkey for several years and wish I'd picked up a shotgun while I was there. I saw some beautiful craftsmanship & wood at good prices.

North"wet"



Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I have a CZ Bobwhite (I wanted a SxS, not O/U). I like it a lot. I've read good and bad (but more good). Seems (for the most part) those that own CZ shotguns tend to like them and those that don't own them don't like Turkish guns in general.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:29 PM   #30005
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Points well taken, that's why I carry a CZ in the field. It's become my go-to bird gun.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:48 AM   #30006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonS View Post
but there is a lot of snobbery in trap and skeet. Some people think anything less than a $3000 Browning (Japanese shotgun) or a Beretta (Italian shotgun) is shit. Some people think that anything less than a $5000-$8000 Kerieghoff or Caesar Guerini is shit.
I took my son skeet shooting for the first time a couple month's ago. Him with a Mossberg 500 with a slug barrel and me with an old Browning Light Twelve with a full choke. Lots of high dollar O/A there but the guy who consistently cleaned everybody's clock was shooting an 870.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:12 AM   #30007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinHead View Post
I took my son skeet shooting for the first time a couple month's ago. Him with a Mossberg 500 with a slug barrel and me with an old Browning Light Twelve with a full choke. Lots of high dollar O/A there but the guy who consistently cleaned everybody's clock was shooting an 870.
quite a few years ago, I went to a skeet shoot and was the high scorer on the round I entered. All the other guys wanted to know what I was shooting. It was my beat up 1950's Ithaca Mod 37 Feather Lite w/ modified choke 12ga. They all had Charles Daley's and other expensive doubles and couldn't believe what I had done.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:39 AM   #30008
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I need to get a 20" barrel for my nova.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:57 AM   #30009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinHead View Post
I took my son skeet shooting for the first time a couple month's ago. Him with a Mossberg 500 with a slug barrel and me with an old Browning Light Twelve with a full choke. Lots of high dollar O/A there but the guy who consistently cleaned everybody's clock was shooting an 870.
That happens but some people deserve their high dollar shotguns. We just started trap shooting about 2 months ago. For $10 instead of the usual $6 you can take a side range with a trapper to help you out when getting started. We did that a couple of times and we were hitting in the high teens so we decided to join the regulars on the main ranges. Didn't really care if we made assholes out of ourselves. We knew we would as some of these people we watched were hitting 25 out of 25 consistently. The last time we were in a group with a girl in her late 20's who had what looked like a Kreighoff single barrel high rib dedicated trap gun. This thing was all business. It had an extended choke, adjustable cheek and butt plate and some really nice wood. She schooled us hitting 24 out of 25 and she was not happy with that score. The next round her mom, who was probably in her 60's, joined us along with the daughter. She had a very similar "all business" shotgun. These things were probably in the north of $5k range in price. The mom out shot the daughter and we shot worse than we did on the practice/training range. Hey, if you can walk the walk then I guess your not just posing.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:16 AM   #30010
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Yep, I was a member at a local trap/skeet range and some of those shooters are impressive, even at a small local range like we have. If they want to spend the money on the more expensive guns and it helps get them from 23 to 25 consistently, more power to them.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:05 AM   #30011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
Yep, I was a member at a local trap/skeet range and some of those shooters are impressive, even at a small local range like we have. If they want to spend the money on the more expensive guns and it helps get them from 23 to 25 consistently, more power to them.
Hell, I don't care if a mediocre shooter wants to drop big bucks on a nice gun. I can't ride like Rossi but I'd own a Bimota if I could afford it. I love nice machinery.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:23 AM   #30012
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I inherited my O/U so don't have any real opinions except that compared to the only auto I've used and pump guns, they are easier to swing because of their overall length.

But if I was paying for it out of pocket for an all around shotgun? I don't know that I'd pay the O/U premium, not with some of the excellent autos and pump guns for much less money.

I wonder how many look at the trap guys with their 5K gun and wonder why, when they have 10K into an AR-15 or 'tactical sniper' rig.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:16 PM   #30013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor31 View Post
I'll try with a few items. While I do not own a model 29 I have owned more than a couple S&W's both early and later vintage.

The undercut front sight is a target adaptation. The idea was to prevent any glare from reflected light being transmitted back to the shooters eye from the front sight.

The locking nothces cut in the cylinder do tend to get a bit of a raised edge on them. Thats from the interaction with the notch and the locking pawl that fits into it. A little bit of an edge is normal and OK. The faster the cylinder rotates, the more force is exerted against the pawl and notch as the pawl stops the cylinder's rotation prior to firing. It tends to "peen" the notch and raise an edge. Lockup should be just before the hammer gets to full cock. Note that the hammer does not travel quite as far back in DA mode as it does when you manually cock it. If the cylinder does not lock up before hammer fall in DA mode it is "out of time". You can "stage" the trigger in DA mode by pulling it back until it is just before the hammer falls. In a S&W it is usually easy to feel a slight increase in trigger pull as the sear gets to the edge. The cylinder should have locked up by then. If you can turn it by hand at that point, get it to a 'smith for adjustment. It's not a job for the average owner. You have to set the cylinder advance pawl and the locking pawl (2 different parts) with the trigger to make the cylnder move and lock up properly. There is no "adjustment" there, it's a situation of proper length parts and or filing to fit. There are also some really small springs involved that can and often do go zinging into the ether if you disassemble the piece all the way. DAMHIK...... Excessive wear of those parts in addition to improper cutting or wear of the angled cuts at the rear of the cylinder can cause timing issues. Having the cylinder aligned with the barrel at firing is a good thing. Having it slightly out of alignment is a bad thing.

Crane lock up has evolved more than once. Some models use the spring loaded ball and detents as a secondary lock and some just use the lock at the front and rear of the cylinder where it mates with the frame and lug under the barrel. Some others have nothing but the rear pin at the rear of the cylinder, it depends on model, caliber and time of manufacture. S&W has made minor adjustments at times to the basic design that do not always match across the production life span. Pinned vs crush fit barrels being one such item.

Did this help at all?
Thanks very much for that Motor31, yes it does explain it well for me. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I was curious as to whether the ball detent mods indicated that it may have been customised or that they were S&W OEM stuff.

Cheers
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:29 AM   #30014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonS View Post
The trouble is that in the over and under as well as the SxS categories the Italian (Caesar Guerini, Benelli, Barnardelli, Rizinni, Franchi, Beretta and many others) , the British (Purdy, Boss, H & H, Westley Richards and many others) and Japanese (Browning, SKB, Charles Daly and others) have become very expensive for us mere mortals. A Browning or a Franchi or a Beretta entry point is 1600 to 3000 dollars...
That about sums it up. MrsDonkeys and I both shoot. We buy a fair amount of guns, and they are all for use, not bragging rights or for display. Most of our guns look like they've been well used too, because they have. That said, I have no problems buying a used gun. MrsDonkeys has wanted a nice O/U for many years. She's just never found one that was quite right. Well, she did, but it was in Germany, and the model was never sold in the US. She's been looking for the perfect fit for years. She found it in a Franchi, a brand we probably never would have looked at. It was used, it fit her well, and it is the type of gun that you'd love to pass down through the generations. So we got it. It was a big bill, but being used and having 12 and 20 gauge barrels definitely softened the blow.

I can't say that it made her a better shooter, but it made her a happier shooter. She smiles every time she opens the case. She's comfortable with the gun. That is what matters most, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I probably won't have a nice O/U for myself for a long time. Although, the way ammo prices are these days, it is a hell of a lot cheaper to go bust clays for a few hours than it is to hit the rifle or handgun range. So a decent Turkish O/U is probably in my near future.

At the end of the day, buy what you can afford, and shoot the hell out of it.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:45 AM   #30015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely View Post
I wonder how many look at the trap guys with their 5K gun and wonder why, when they have 10K into an AR-15 or 'tactical sniper' rig.
$10K is a pretty expensive AR, but be a legal full auto.

As for a $10K "tactical sniper" rifle, other than color, there's not a lot of difference between a "tactical sniper" rifle and a target rifle. Functionally the biggest difference is the calibers being used. For some of those rifles there's a very small market and between the rifle and the glass, that's what it costs to play. If a guy with a AI rifle is getting outshot by a guy with a Savage rifle/scope combo kit, he may want to ask himself what he's doing with his life. Hopefully the guy with the AI rifle got there because he was exceeding what other rifles could do and need to step up.

Me? I can't shoot that well beyond what .308 and .223 are capable of, so I'm a Savage rifle combo kit kind of guy.
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