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Old 12-02-2008, 01:59 PM   #691
wyowillys46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264
Serious Q (not trolling - I'm curious), is a gun worth more (I'm thinking military but I guess it could also apply to other situations) to a collector if it's seen action or is it worth more in un-used and/or pristine condition ?
I'd say it depends on the collector. I place more value on condition than history. The problem with guns that have "history" is unless there's documentation it's typically BS.

When I bought my Broomhandle, the story is that it was captured in Italy by a GI (most likely true) and traded to a pilot for a ride in a fighter (most likely BS). You have to take a lot of the stories with a grain of salt.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:00 PM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Stu
I rented some machine guns in Las Vegas this weekend.

Uzi, "Grease gun", and Mac-10.

Ho-lee shit.

I wanted to shoot the Ingram first. The guy at the range asked me if I had ever shot a machine gun, I said "No", he said "Let's try something else, it isn't a "starter" machine gun.".

Understatement of the century.

The Uzi and "grease gun" were really easy to shoot even for a n00b like me, but the Mac-10, at 1200+ rounds per minute, scared the living shit out of me.

I suppose it is a handy weapon for those times you have to kill every mother fucker in the bathroom at once.

I can see why people are gun nuts, that was some fun shit, and it was cheaper than hookers and blow.

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Old 12-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowillys46
I'd say it depends on the collector. I place more value on condition than history. The problem with guns that have "history" is unless there's documentation it's typically BS.

When I bought my Broomhandle, the story is that it was captured in Italy by a GI (most likely true) and traded to a pilot for a ride in a fighter (most likely BS). You have to take a lot of the stories with a grain of salt.
I buy the gun not the story...too many tall tales over the years
unless it comes with a letter from someone like Roy Jenks at S&W
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #694
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Originally Posted by Zecatfish

Winchester Model 275 22 Magnum Pump.
This is one of favorite rifles in my collection. I don't think I've ever seen another in a gun shop. Action likesto pumped through slow or else it will jam every time.
I inherited one of those from my grandfather....haven't shot it yet! .22 mag is expensive!
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:07 PM   #695
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My daughter is 2 now, so it's time for some newer pics, but I took this one of my little gangster in her "crib" about a year and a half ago. I'm otherwise a superstar parent so don't slag me! We baby-signed at 9 months old and she now says "please", "thank you" and "excuse me" at age 2. Yeah, I know I forgot to re-SAFE it, but I had just PROVE'd it safe (Canadian safety acronym: Point in a safe direction, Remove magazine. Observe empty chamber, Verify feed path is clear i.e. see the follower, and Examine the bore)
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:08 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264
I figured but I thought I'd ask. I am also assuming that the more important the victim (or number of victims ) the more valuable the gun. I guess it just adds to the history of the weapon and thus increases it's value.
Imagine if one of these killed Hitler, or even one of his top officers, it would be worth well over a million.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:11 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da Hodag
for an extra $1k it was carried by a ___________ .

choices:
Ranger on D-day
101st screaming eagle on D-day
Battle of the Bulge vet
Marine on Iwo Jima
Eisenhower himself
Except, none of them carried a Liberator. Liberators were air dropped inot rear echelon areas or occupied areas so the oppressed civilinas who had been long since disarmed by Hitler or other governments had a way to shoot a German or Nazi soldier and take a good reliable weapon for their resistance.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:15 PM   #698
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Originally Posted by Sniper X
Except, none of them carried a Liberator. Liberators were air dropped inot rear echelon areas or occupied areas so the oppressed civilinas who had been long since disarmed by Hitler or other governments had a way to shoot a German or Nazi soldier and take a good reliable weapon for their resistance.
based on what i've read they is almost no documention they were dropped in france , but used in china and phillipines
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:17 PM   #699
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The Liberator was shipped in a cardboard box with 10 rounds of .45 ACP ammunition, a wooden dowel to remove the empty shell casing, and an instruction sheet in comic strip form[1] showing how to load and fire the weapon. Extra rounds of ammunition could be stored in the pistol grip.
After production, the Army turned the Liberators over to the OSS. A crude and clumsy weapon, the Liberator was never intended for front line service. It was originally intended as an insurgency weapon to be mass dropped behind enemy lines to resistance fighters in occupied territory. A resistance fighter was to recover the weapon, sneak up on an Axis occupier, kill or incapacitate him, and retrieve his weapons. Many resistance fighters called the FP-45 "a great weapon to get another one with."[who?]
The weapon was valued as much for its psychological warfare effect as its actual field performance. It was believed that if vast quantities of these weapons could be delivered into Axis occupied territory, it would have a devastating effect on the morale of occupying troops. The plan was to drop the weapon in such great quantities that occupying forces could never capture or recover all the weapons. It was hoped that the thought of thousands of these unrecovered weapons potentially in the hands of the citizens of occupied countries would have a deleterious effect on enemy morale.
In reality, the OSS never saw the practicality in mass dropping the Liberator over occupied Europe, and only a handful were ever distributed. Only the Chinese and resistance forces in the Philippines received the Liberator in any significant quantity. The Liberator was never issued to American or Allied troops and there is no known instance of the weapon ever actually being used in combat.
The original delivered cost for the FP-45 was $2.40/unit[1] ($26 in 2005). A Liberator in good condition today can fetch approximately $2500, with the original box bringing an additional $1500, with an original extremely rare paper instruction sheet the value could exceed $4500 to a collector of rare World War II militaria. There are fakes of these sheets, but the real ones had a watermark that can be seen clearly, which is difficult to duplicate.
An interesting fact about the Liberator is that the factories could produce one faster than the weapon could be loaded and fired. The factory turned out a pistol every six or seven seconds whilst loading took about 10 seconds.
Another variant of this gun was a two shot version which never made general production. It had two chambers, where one would be fired and then the other slid into position to fire. This version is extremely rare.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:18 PM   #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da Hodag
based on what i've read they is almost no documention they were dropped in france , but used in china and phillipines
Euro theater didn't get many, less than 5000 I think, but they were used extensivly in China and Phillipeenes.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:19 PM   #701
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here's a site where the guy shot one
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172677

btw this is the kind of gun discussion we should have in this thread,
none of that political bs
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:22 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da Hodag
here's a site where the guy shot one
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172677

btw this is the kind of gun discussion we should have in this thread,
none of that political bs
wow...cool post...thanks for that.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:27 PM   #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Stu
I rented some machine guns in Las Vegas this weekend.



The Uzi and "grease gun" were really easy to shoot even for a n00b like me, but the Mac-10, at 1200+ rounds per minute, scared the living shit out of me.

I suppose it is a handy weapon for those times you have to kill every mother fucker in the bathroom at once.

I can see why people are gun nuts, that was some fun shit, and it was cheaper than hookers and blow.

Thanks
Machine Gun Stu

Many years ago the chicken farmers would let us hunt coyotes at night with predator calls, Mostly with shotguns and buckshot. One night a Friend of a Friend went with us and had a Mac-10. Whe had him take the first "shot". I had never been around one but was expecting a pow,pow,pow like in the movies. I just about shit myself when he lit that lil son of a bitch up . I don't think he hit shit but I think everything within a five mile radius headed for the hills.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:30 PM   #704
Sniper X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da Hodag
here's a site where the guy shot one
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172677

btw this is the kind of gun discussion we should have in this thread,
none of that political bs
I saw that once on THR but the thing is he tried to fire at a man sized head shot from 20ft. That is about 15ft closer than this weapon was made to shoot from. In fact, I seem to remember the little cartoon that comes with the Liberator showing a French looking man in a beret shooting a Nazi from about a foot away.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:36 PM   #705
Mercury264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowillys46
I'd say it depends on the collector. I place more value on condition than history. The problem with guns that have "history" is unless there's documentation it's typically BS.

When I bought my Broomhandle, the story is that it was captured in Italy by a GI (most likely true) and traded to a pilot for a ride in a fighter (most likely BS). You have to take a lot of the stories with a grain of salt.
Understood - the fog of war and all that.
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