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Old 10-16-2010, 08:45 AM   #11506
toolfan
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.357 mag with just shy of 1600 ft-lb out of a carbine:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=100


(In Oregon it's centerfire, 22cal or greater for deer. I think it's greater than 22cal for elk, but can't remember for sure.)

edit - the ballistics charts in the above link are a little confusing, they are all for the 180gr load, but I believe it's the 158 gr load that has the most energy. Also, the top chart is for 180 gr at 2000 fps, which is a far amount more than they get.

Either which way, it beats the 1200 ft-lb threshold.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:45 AM   #11507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
.357 mag with just shy of 1600 ft-lb out of a carbine:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=100


(In Oregon it's centerfire, 22cal or greater for deer. I think it's greater than 22cal for elk, but can't remember for sure.)

edit - the ballistics charts in the above link are a little confusing, they are all for the 180gr load, but I believe it's the 158 gr load that has the most energy. Also, the top chart is for 180 gr at 2000 fps, which is a far amount more than they get.

Either which way, it beats the 1200 ft-lb threshold.
WOW! I have been shooting and handloading ammo for over 30 years now, and have spent some time trying to get powerful (and safe) .357 loads. I can't imagine how they are able to do that and remain anywhere close to safe pressures.
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:47 PM   #11508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
WOW! I have been shooting and handloading ammo for over 30 years now, and have spent some time trying to get powerful (and safe) .357 loads. I can't imagine how they are able to do that and remain anywhere close to safe pressures.
They use some proprietary powder combos (their words when I talked to them). Max handloads of H110 or 2400 with a 158gr bullets out of a carbine will come pretty close. I can reliably get 2,000fps+ out of my .357 carbine using 2400 powder (I won't say how much to keep folks from replicating it). It was a load that I found from a reloading manual printed in the 60's- when .357's were still massive and overbuilt. Current loadings are about 20% lower than they were back then since there are now small frame revolvers that chamber .357's. I use virgin brass and small rifle primers and the loads are for use in the carbine and large frame Rugers only- but there are no signs of pressure and the cases drop free. Keep in mind that the original .357 loadings were lead 158gr bullets at over 1500fps from a 6" barrel, using 1930's metallurgy.
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Old 10-16-2010, 05:11 PM   #11509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasKLRider
They use some proprietary powder combos (their words when I talked to them). Max handloads of H110 or 2400 with a 158gr bullets out of a carbine will come pretty close. I can reliably get 2,000fps+ out of my .357 carbine using 2400 powder (I won't say how much to keep folks from replicating it). It was a load that I found from a reloading manual printed in the 60's- when .357's were still massive and overbuilt. Current loadings are about 20% lower than they were back then since there are now small frame revolvers that chamber .357's. I use virgin brass and small rifle primers and the loads are for use in the carbine and large frame Rugers only- but there are no signs of pressure and the cases drop free. Keep in mind that the original .357 loadings were lead 158gr bullets at over 1500fps from a 6" barrel, using 1930's metallurgy.
Yeah, I figured that out after looking at the site, as it implies that the rounds that they sell are over SAAMI specification. I have actually chronographed some of the old stuff that was supposed to go 1500+, and out of an original S&W .357 8 3/4" (registered pre M27), it was about 1250 fps. and a bit less out of a 6" Colt Python. I guess maybe it would go 1500 in a non vented test barrel, but not in a revolver. I guess with all of your precautions, it is possible, but with a rear locking lever action or any normal sized DA revolver I would avoid trying for that kind of performance.
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Old 10-16-2010, 06:25 PM   #11510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
Yeah, I figured that out after looking at the site, as it implies that the rounds that they sell are over SAAMI specification. I have actually chronographed some of the old stuff that was supposed to go 1500+, and out of an original S&W .357 8 3/4" (registered pre M27), it was about 1250 fps. and a bit less out of a 6" Colt Python. I guess maybe it would go 1500 in a non vented test barrel, but not in a revolver. I guess with all of your precautions, it is possible, but with a rear locking lever action or any normal sized DA revolver I would avoid trying for that kind of performance.

According to the Buffalo Bore website that ammo is safe in any 357 handgun or rifle, including the ultra-light scandium J-frame revolvers although they don't recommend it for those.

I'm curious, in Hawaii if a warden were to encounter someone hunting with a 357 carbine, how would they go about determining whether the ammo was powerful enough to make the cut? I assume they don't carry portable chronographs around with them.....
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:33 PM   #11511
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Originally Posted by HardCase
According to the Buffalo Bore website that ammo is safe in any 357 handgun or rifle, including the ultra-light scandium J-frame revolvers although they don't recommend it for those.

I'm curious, in Hawaii if a warden were to encounter someone hunting with a 357 carbine, how would they go about determining whether the ammo was powerful enough to make the cut? I assume they don't carry portable chronographs around with them.....
Well, if the officer is reasonably intelligent, he would not even attempt to prosecute a case like this, for exactly that reason. And if the officer did cite a hunter with a .357 carbine, and he or his attorney does his homework, and points out that we allow handguns with way less ME, then the judge would likely dismiss the case.

I withhold comment on how intelligent my fellow officers are.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:15 AM   #11512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan
.357 mag with just shy of 1600 ft-lb out of a carbine:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=100


(In Oregon it's centerfire, 22cal or greater for deer. I think it's greater than 22cal for elk, but can't remember for sure.)

edit - the ballistics charts in the above link are a little confusing, they are all for the 180gr load, but I believe it's the 158 gr load that has the most energy. Also, the top chart is for 180 gr at 2000 fps, which is a far amount more than they get.

Either which way, it beats the 1200 ft-lb threshold.


I think for elk in Oregon it's gotta be .243" or larger and over 1200 ft. lbs. of energy at 100 yds.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:00 PM   #11513
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Washington state: .24 or bigger, 4" barrrel or longer, so 1911s are good to go. Really.

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Old 10-17-2010, 01:37 PM   #11514
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Hey, I know this question has come up here before. Haven't been in the thread in awhile

Whats the verdict on the Rock Island .45 clone? A fella around here has one in the shop for $344. Right next to the Remington .45 whcih he has listed for $689
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:13 PM   #11515
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Originally Posted by Wind-venture
Hey, I know this question has come up here before. Haven't been in the thread in awhile

Whats the verdict on the Rock Island .45 clone? A fella around here has one in the shop for $344. Right next to the Remington .45 whcih he has listed for $689
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:06 PM   #11516
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Okay, gotta ask again...

I took my 10/22 to the range today and had a great time, better than I expected actually. I got one of those swinging prairie dog targets and I think I'll get the one with the cans and bottles on it now too

Anyways, it has renewed my interest in getting a .22 pistol to go with the rifle. When I went to Scheels, it looked like there several good options. They have a lightly used Single Six for $320 and new 22/45s for about $349. I think I like the revolver better to be honest but I would have to hold them a little to decide (unless either one of these are shitty guns). Then on the other hand, they had a couple S&W .38s with the hammers bobbed off for $250, and a Taurus 66 that looked a little rough around the edges but functional for $350. I really think I just want a .22 but people I talk to don't seem to think that those make you a better shooter when you eventually move up to centerfire... I had a 9mm and hated the accuracy and ammo cost so I think I know what to do
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:08 PM   #11517
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Originally Posted by El Guero
Okay, gotta ask again...

I took my 10/22 to the range today and had a great time, better than I expected actually. I got one of those swinging prairie dog targets and I think I'll get the one with the cans and bottles on it now too

Anyways, it has renewed my interest in getting a .22 pistol to go with the rifle. When I went to Scheels, it looked like there several good options. They have a lightly used Single Six for $320 and new 22/45s for about $349. I think I like the revolver better to be honest but I would have to hold them a little to decide (unless either one of these are shitty guns). Then on the other hand, they had a couple S&W .38s with the hammers bobbed off for $250, and a Taurus 66 that looked a little rough around the edges but functional for $350. I really think I just want a .22 but people I talk to don't seem to think that those make you a better shooter when you eventually move up to centerfire... I had a 9mm and hated the accuracy and ammo cost so I think I know what to do
I want a P22 real bad, but the single six is your best bet for reliability and resale.
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:13 PM   #11518
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Originally Posted by EvilGenius
I want a P22 real bad, but the single six is your best bet for reliability and resale.
Before I take your advice, have you ever actually bought any guns? I always read about what you want, but not what you have
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:15 PM   #11519
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Originally Posted by El Guero
Before I take your advice, have you ever actually bought any guns? I always read about what you want, but not what you have
No not literally, but that doesn't mean I don't do research.

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Old 10-17-2010, 03:18 PM   #11520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGenius
No not literally, but that doesn't mean I don't do research.

Well then take my empirical advice, buy a 10/22 with the next spare $200 you have
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