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Old 03-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #16486
lstzephyr
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That makes sense about an up and a down side. I hadn't thought about wear and it does have only around 100 miles on it. I guess it is possible.

I haven't tried a wet test. I pulled the rocker cover tonight to try kicking it over without the cam involved. The kick cycle feels the same, with a lot of compression, and a sort of spongy leaking feeling. Compression may be the culprit.

We are planning on trying a differential compression test on it. That seems like the next option. If nothing else it will show where the air may be leaking from.

Ridefreak: Would the pull start overcome the auto decomp? I guess that is speed limited. Its supposed to be nice this weekend so I will give pull starting a try. I'm going to buy you a case of beer if that was the problem all along. Unfortunately I think it is more than that.

Edit: We just put 75 psi of shop air into the cylinder to see where or if it leaked. Its blowing out the crankcase vents so we have a piston/cylinder/ring issue. I'm somewhat annoyed I misdiagnosed it 45 times but I'm also super excited to finally have a symptom that can lead to a resolution of the issue. I guess I'm pulling the engine down again.

lstzephyr screwed with this post 03-15-2013 at 09:14 PM
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:13 PM   #16487
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The decomp can stick, had it happen to me. They def have a hard time starting if that's the Case. It is speed related, it should activate at kicking speeds but not at idle speed and above. Obviously it can also cause compression readings to be haywire. I've not tried a compression test on the xrr, not sure if it's even accurate with the ks comp system.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:44 PM   #16488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
That makes sense about an up and a down side. I hadn't thought about wear and it does have only around 100 miles on it. I guess it is possible.

I haven't tried a wet test. I pulled the rocker cover tonight to try kicking it over without the cam involved. The kick cycle feels the same, with a lot of compression, and a sort of spongy leaking feeling. Compression may be the culprit.

We are planning on trying a differential compression test on it. That seems like the next option. If nothing else it will show where the air may be leaking from.

Ridefreak: Would the pull start overcome the auto decomp? I guess that is speed limited. Its supposed to be nice this weekend so I will give pull starting a try. I'm going to buy you a case of beer if that was the problem all along. Unfortunately I think it is more than that.

Edit: We just put 75 psi of shop air into the cylinder to see where or if it leaked. Its blowing out the crankcase vents so we have a piston/cylinder/ring issue. I'm somewhat annoyed I misdiagnosed it 45 times but I'm also super excited to finally have a symptom that can lead to a resolution of the issue. I guess I'm pulling the engine down again.
My money is on rings! Lets hope it didn't wreck your plating or piston.

Could be a cheap fix if that's it. New head gasket and rings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
The decomp can stick, had it happen to me. They def have a hard time starting if that's the Case. It is speed related, it should activate at kicking speeds but not at idle speed and above. Obviously it can also cause compression readings to be haywire. I've not tried a compression test on the xrr, not sure if it's even accurate with the ks comp system.
I've had mine stick a few times. I eventually found out that it happens when I stop my bike on my garage pad in gear and let it roll back and stop via the engine compression. It activates the decomp. I then don't ride it for awhile and when I go to kick it, the damn thing won't start. I haven't found out how to disengage it other then kicking it over for 5 minutes. Eventually it fires up.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:19 PM   #16489
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Edit: We just put 75 psi of shop air into the cylinder to see where or if it leaked. Its blowing out the crankcase vents so we have a piston/cylinder/ring issue. I'm somewhat annoyed I misdiagnosed it 45 times but I'm also super excited to finally have a symptom that can lead to a resolution of the issue. I guess I'm pulling the engine down again.[/QUOTE]

hold on there before you tear more stuff apart.
Do you have a manual? if not do a search for one
I could send a copy to your e-mail if you need

a certain amount of hissing at the breather is typical on a leak down test
and you probably don't how much?

A compression test per the manual is in order first

choke open and at full throttle 5-6 swift kicks should yield around 87 PIS
then loosen the exhaust rockers to .040 (40 thousandths) and then you should have close to 160 psi using the same process (This removes the decompressor action)
the throttle position can make a big difference in readings.
if your anywhere close say 130 psi on the last test move on compression is-int stopping it from starting.
If the rings are suspect you will see oil wet fouling the spark plug, that can be temporarily cleared by solvent cleaning (brake clean)
The plug will look wet but no fuel smell.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:03 AM   #16490
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what parts on the oil pump should be replaced when rebuilding it, both inner and outer parts of both rotors along with the oil seal? or more?
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:14 PM   #16491
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Originally Posted by mitchn06 View Post
what parts on the oil pump should be replaced when rebuilding it, both inner and outer parts of both rotors along with the oil seal? or more?
There's 4 pieces, a backing plate, circular outer ring, star shaped inner rotor and the outer alum cover. The rotor and cover are the 2 items that usally see the most abuse. I didn't see a spec for the cover but since it's alum, if it shows wear I'd include it with the other parts that you need.

The goal is to get the gaps on the side of the rotor (between the cover and the rotor as close to stock as possible, there's also a spec for the rotor tip clearance. They are easy to measure with feeler guages, the manual shows the procedure and includes the specs.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:02 PM   #16492
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With the Acerbis, I use a 1/4" long extension with wobbly end and a 6 point socket. The tank goes on really easy that way! If your socket wobbles too much, making it difficult to get the bolt in to the hole, wrap some electrician's tape around the end of the extension and the beginning of the socket. That'll make it easier to 'aim' the bolt into its hole. Good luck!

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I have big hands so mounting the 6.3 Acerbis is a pain in the ass! Is the IMS 7 easier to take on and off? Anyone with experience mounting both?
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:18 PM   #16493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dohcfox View Post
With the Acerbis, I use a 1/4" long extension with wobbly end and a 6 point socket. The tank goes on really easy that way! If your socket wobbles too much, making it difficult to get the bolt in to the hole, wrap some electrician's tape around the end of the extension and the beginning of the socket. That'll make it easier to 'aim' the bolt into its hole. Good luck!
And having the bolts with the flanged heads makes it easier to "push" the bolt with the socket into the frame holes as you apply torque.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:02 AM   #16494
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ok so i searched this thread .....cant find it ...some1 did a mod to there petcock and added some tube to the filter and then added weight to the other end and place the heavy end in the front low part of a acbis tank ...i cant remember if he was using a pumper carb or the stocker

any1 remember this or know where it is ?
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:15 AM   #16495
hontri
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Originally Posted by Sean-0 View Post
ok so i searched this thread .....cant find it ...some1 did a mod to there petcock and added some tube to the filter and then added weight to the other end and place the heavy end in the front low part of a acbis tank ...i cant remember if he was using a pumper carb or the stocker

any1 remember this or know where it is ?
Here :Scroll down http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...09774&page=913
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:14 AM   #16496
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Thanks Hontri ... i must have missed that page damm it ......
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:44 AM   #16497
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Way to many forum pages without a BRP pic ...

Spring on it's way, the enduro studs went off yesterday soon the muddier season starts

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Old 03-18-2013, 08:03 AM   #16498
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Originally Posted by mitchn06 View Post
what parts on the oil pump should be replaced when rebuilding it, both inner and outer parts of both rotors along with the oil seal? or more?
I would think that if you are replacing the oil pump, you should be replacing everything else also.

BTW, there are testing ports and a way to test the oil pressure.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:49 AM   #16499
mitchn06
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Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
I would think that if you are replacing the oil pump, you should be replacing everything else also.

BTW, there are testing ports and a way to test the oil pressure.
what exactly do you mean by "everything else also?" is there a procedure in the FSM for testing oil pressure?? i guess i may have missed it. as far as i know, there is nothing wrong with teh pump, its just 13 years old and i lack of oil is what started this mess, i don't want to rebuild this bike, then burn it up right away.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:27 PM   #16500
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Originally Posted by mitchn06 View Post
what exactly do you mean by "everything else also?" is there a procedure in the FSM for testing oil pressure?? i guess i may have missed it. as far as i know, there is nothing wrong with teh pump, its just 13 years old and i lack of oil is what started this mess, i don't want to rebuild this bike, then burn it up right away.
Oh, I had forgot you already did replace everything else already.
Actually, I went home last week and checked my pump since it is one of the few original parts in my motor, and it still has lots of life in it.

I know I saw a test procedure somewhere, it used the ports where the external oil lines tie in to the case. Seems like it required two gauges. If it isn't in the xrr manual, it may be i honda's general service manual. I can look tonight when I go home.

I am not sure if the cover (pump housing) actaully has any wear points on it, and I think all the wear would be between the rotors and the part they interface with. If not, its a cheap fix/insurance. Otherwise the cover adds $170 to the job.
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