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Old 02-08-2011, 08:30 AM   #7336
Shibby!
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I told myself not to get involved in this and here I go..

And to that I agree. Looks like I started something rediculous that won't stop..


So.. Does everybody here think the DRZ/DR/XR/F650, etc engines are equally as reliable, or more-so then then the XRR? Aside from any known issues that were design faults.

IMO, when performance is pushed from an engine (more HP, more torque, and engine characteristic), then it becomes a performance/race engine. With performance comes reliability issues. It may not be linear, but there are things given up when starting to push the envelope.

Sure the 450's are putting out more performance/displacement at a reduced service and reliablity limit, but at the same time they are newer technology, and designed for MX, or at least based off MX engines. These engines were originally designed to compete with 2-strokes. High RPM, high powered bikes at minimal weight. They want big power up top, and in between it's not so important.

IMO, real life requires a broad powerband. Power throughout the RPM range is ideal. I believe thats what they had in mind with the XRR. Why have WOT power when you could sacrifice the top end power slightly but have a more thorough power delivery throughout the rev range.

I'm sure we'll see lots of different opinions, but I'm sure there are good arguements on both sides. I just don't think Honda has a lazy mill on it's mind when designing and building the XRR. They wanted a competitive baseline to produce their race bikes. We have to keep in mind this was done in the later 90's as opposed to the 450's which are being deleloped every year to push the envelope.

At the end of the day, Honda still recommends a 600km?/mile? service. That's not great by any means. It may not need it, but 450's don't need the 10hr oil change either in some people's minds. Sure their top ends wear out, but also, not requiring the rebuilds as often as they state either.

Lets hear the arguements
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:16 AM   #7337
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I have a real stupid tire question. I've been reading this thread and my eyes are about crossed.

What tires and sizes are you guys running? I was going to run the Dunlop 606's, but now I'm not finding the proper size. The closest size I found is a 120/90-18. Is that the one that works, and still lets you gear the bike how you want? Thanks for any and all help.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:42 AM   #7338
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I have a real stupid tire question. I've been reading this thread and my eyes are about crossed.

What tires and sizes are you guys running? I was going to run the Dunlop 606's, but now I'm not finding the proper size. The closest size I found is a 120/90-18. Is that the one that works, and still lets you gear the bike how you want? Thanks for any and all help.
The D606 doesn't come in many sizes....but yes, the 18" rear you mention works well. I've run a number of those on my XR600's and 628.
IMO the D908RR is too big for this bike, but many probably use it and like it.

I needed my bike inspected for compliance before getting it plated, so I needed DOT tires....and found a great price on the Bridgestone Gritty ED03/ED04. The rear, for it's nominal size - looks small, but it works quite well so far. It hasn't been anywhere near the variety of terrain the D606's have seen yet - it is winter in Colorado after all

I liked the Maxxis Desert on the XR628, which spent 95% of it's time offroad. I will probably go back to the Maxxis before my next Baja trip.

As far as DOT tires go though, the D606 is probably my favorite....and that could be because I find them cheap often enough that I haven't tried the MT21 yet
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:56 AM   #7339
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D606 and D908

I stick with these on my plated bikes, in case I get checked.
130/90 rear D606 on my XRR
140/80 rear D908 on my 950adv
90/90frts on both, mounted backwards hoping to limit cupping

FWIW.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:22 AM   #7340
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I ran V2R and did ~1200 miles in baja on a 120 606 - worked just fine. It does allow you to run the axle all the way forward in the swinger without issue. A 130 may as well, I'm not sure.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:24 AM   #7341
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Originally Posted by jules083 View Post
I have a real stupid tire question. I've been reading this thread and my eyes are about crossed.

What tires and sizes are you guys running? I was going to run the Dunlop 606's, but now I'm not finding the proper size. The closest size I found is a 120/90-18. Is that the one that works, and still lets you gear the bike how you want? Thanks for any and all help.

The 606's are a good DOT tire.I found them to vib and make alot of road noise.And the fronts tend to fold in the dirt turns when pushed,like everyother DOT knobbie.
I went to the Michelin T-63 rear,130/80-18,and there S rated on the pavement,and a DOT copy of there desert tire.Alot cheaper priced then the 606's,but in my opinon a better all around tire.I got 3400 miles out of the last one.
On the front i found the Michelin AC-10 100/90-21fit the bill!Great side knobbs,really stick in the dirt turns,and out lasts the MT-21's.
That set up cost me $110 shipped to my door,and i can get just about the whole season out of the pair.I do have other bikes to fill the gap.
That set up works great where i ride,,Northeast single track,the three R's,rocks,ruts and roots,lots of fire roads,and back mtn twistie pavement.I'm sure depending on your area of ride'n,it might have different results.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:09 PM   #7342
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The 606's are a good DOT tire.I found them to vib and make alot of road noise.And the fronts tend to fold in the dirt turns when pushed,like everyother DOT knobbie.
I went to the Michelin T-63 rear,130/80-18,and there S rated on the pavement,and a DOT copy of there desert tire.Alot cheaper priced then the 606's,but in my opinon a better all around tire.I got 3400 miles out of the last one.
On the front i found the Michelin AC-10 100/90-21fit the bill!Great side knobbs,really stick in the dirt turns,and out lasts the MT-21's.
That set up cost me $110 shipped to my door,and i can get just about the whole season out of the pair.I do have other bikes to fill the gap.
That set up works great where i ride,,Northeast single track,the three R's,rocks,ruts and roots,lots of fire roads,and back mtn twistie pavement.I'm sure depending on your area of ride'n,it might have different results.

I might go that route then. I'm more worried about having to change a tire every couple hundred miles than actually having a DOT tire. I figured most if not all offroad only tires would wear out much quicker. By the time it warms up and I can actually ride the bike around I'll probably find myself riding on the road a lot more than I think I will, but I'm still concerened with dirt performance mostly.

*edit* - Looking at pictures of the tires you mentioned it seems like the 606's would work a lot better in the dirt. Maybe I'm wrong?
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:12 PM   #7343
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I'm still concerened with dirt performance mostly.

Maxxis Desert IT rear, Dunlop MX51 front.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:18 PM   #7344
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I have had good luck with the Maxxis Desert IT on the back. It wears pretty well on the street and hooks up well in the dirt. Right now I have a used Metzler Six Days Extreme on the rear because I got it and seven other D606's for $40, (all used). When I use them all up, I'll go back to the Maxxis.

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Old 02-08-2011, 12:26 PM   #7345
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I might go that route then. I'm more worried about having to change a tire every couple hundred miles than actually having a DOT tire. I figured most if not all offroad only tires would wear out much quicker. By the time it warms up and I can actually ride the bike around I'll probably find myself riding on the road a lot more than I think I will, but I'm still concerened with dirt performance mostly.

*edit* - Looking at pictures of the tires you mentioned it seems like the 606's would work a lot better in the dirt. Maybe I'm wrong?

What kind of terrain are you ride'n??

I rode 400 miles of the Hatfield&McCoy trails with a set of Michelin T-63's on a DRZ,include'n all the single track,trials trails.
I ride 80% dirt on my DS bikes with T-63's.I find in the muddy stuff they clean off quicker then the 606's.And get just as much if not better dig everywhere.DOT front knobbies in my opinon are at best alright.And thats 606,T-63,etc.I perfer to go with a more agressive DOT front,basicly a dirt tire with DOT stamped on it.I get the same wear front and rear,because the rears take alot more abuse then a front.
What are you ride'n??
The T-63 is a DOT copy of the Michelin Desert racer,which is one of the best off road tires made.Alot of pro's run them in places like,Dakar,Baja 500/1000,Romaniac's,etc.





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Old 02-08-2011, 12:36 PM   #7346
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At the end of the day, Honda still recommends a 600km?/mile? service. That's not great by any means. It may not need it, but 450's don't need the 10hr oil change either in some people's minds. Sure their top ends wear out, but also, not requiring the rebuilds as often as they state either.
10hr oil change?! My CRF450 manual says to change the piston every 15hrs!?! Do I? No, but I wouldn't ride it on the street either.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:14 PM   #7347
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What kind of terrain are you ride'n??

I rode 400 miles of the Hatfield&McCoy trails with a set of Michelin T-63's on a DRZ,include'n all the single track,trials trails.
I ride 80% dirt on my DS bikes with T-63's.I find in the muddy stuff they clean off quicker then the 606's.And get just as much if not better dig everywhere.DOT front knobbies in my opinon are at best alright.And thats 606,T-63,etc.I perfer to go with a more agressive DOT front,basicly a dirt tire with DOT stamped on it.I get the same wear front and rear,because the rears take alot more abuse then a front.
What are you ride'n??
The T-63 is a DOT copy of the Michelin Desert racer,which is one of the best off road tires made.Alot of pro's run them in places like,Dakar,Baja 500/1000,Romaniac's,etc.
Terrain wise, it's pretty much all nasty. The area I normally ride (wellsville, Ohio) is all rutted up, hardpacked rocky dirt that has been worn down and torn up by trucks, ATV's, and dune buggies. There are normally deep puddles and mud ruts in the trails with anything from the thick goopy mud to the slick stuff that feels like ice. Basically about the worst conditions you can think up for a dirt bike. I'm on an XR650R.

Bad street performance I can deal with, as long as the tire doesn't explode or wear out after a good weekend I'm happy.

Thanks for all the advise so far, this site is a lot more helpful to noobies than a few other I've been on.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:04 PM   #7348
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I am also curious about the 16T sprocket - any issues with fitment and is there a case saver available that fits?
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No fitment issues, except I had to clearance a 15T XR's Only case saver.
Here's a pic. Depending on the type of riding and whether I'm running my dirt or street wheels, I run a 14/15/16T front sprocket and a 46/48T rear sprocket. Gives me a really wide selection of gear ratios that all work with the stock length chain.

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Old 02-08-2011, 06:25 PM   #7349
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Terrain wise, it's pretty much all nasty. The area I normally ride (wellsville, Ohio) is all rutted up, hardpacked rocky dirt that has been worn down and torn up by trucks, ATV's, and dune buggies. There are normally deep puddles and mud ruts in the trails with anything from the thick goopy mud to the slick stuff that feels like ice. Basically about the worst conditions you can think up for a dirt bike. I'm on an XR650R.

Bad street performance I can deal with, as long as the tire doesn't explode or wear out after a good weekend I'm happy.

Thanks for all the advise so far, this site is a lot more helpful to noobies than a few other I've been on.
This site really is a good one. Once you know how to use it and start recognizing people you will love it. Actually its more of an addiction

The problem with conditions like that is the kind of tyre it takes to excell at anything slick off road is about as far as you can get for onroad life expectancy; most likely due to the soft rubber and different chemical compounds. For dry terrain that is more of a hard pack ive found most dualsport tyres work great which makes sense but for nything sloppy your tyres should be atleast some sort of intermediate terrain kind of design. Any of the dualsport tyres that are made to last (not all are, some are just rated for legality's sake) will not work well in slop once the edge has been worn off.

I like intermediate rated tyres for a good mix of terrain especially the M12 mainly because it works really well in the rocks (no chunking) but it also works pretty well in the slop. If you start looking for soft-intermediate tyres look at the tread design and ask yourself if you think it will hold up to road then go read some reviews.

If you need a DOT tyre the Kenda trackmaster II is pretty hard to beat for loos(er) terrain. But ive really started to like the M12's and if I really needed a tyre for slop I would get an S12, ive never had one on the XRR but I was impressed with them on my buddies bike. Though his front did chunk in the rocks.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:47 PM   #7350
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This site really is a good one. Once you know how to use it and start recognizing people you will love it. Actually its more of an addiction

The problem with conditions like that is the kind of tyre it takes to excell at anything slick off road is about as far as you can get for onroad life expectancy; most likely due to the soft rubber and different chemical compounds. For dry terrain that is more of a hard pack ive found most dualsport tyres work great which makes sense but for nything sloppy your tyres should be atleast some sort of intermediate terrain kind of design. Any of the dualsport tyres that are made to last (not all are, some are just rated for legality's sake) will not work well in slop once the edge has been worn off.

I like intermediate rated tyres for a good mix of terrain especially the M12 mainly because it works really well in the rocks (no chunking) but it also works pretty well in the slop. If you start looking for soft-intermediate tyres look at the tread design and ask yourself if you think it will hold up to road then go read some reviews.

If you need a DOT tyre the Kenda trackmaster II is pretty hard to beat for loos(er) terrain. But ive really started to like the M12's and if I really needed a tyre for slop I would get an S12, ive never had one on the XRR but I was impressed with them on my buddies bike. Though his front did chunk in the rocks.

Thanks, now you got me looking at even more tires wondering what to get. My mind was made up this morning.

I think it's a toss up between the T63 and the D606 rear and between the D606 and AC-10 front now. Or the Kenda trackmaster II's front and rear. I might just get the Kenda's, they seem to be the cheapest at least. If the terrain is real bad and I still want to ride I can always haul my 450R out, it doesn't do bad in the woods once you get used to the motocross suspension.
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