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Old 11-27-2011, 03:25 PM   #11521
RideFreak
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As far as I'm concerned, the jury's out on the XR4 CDI, yeah it's a little faster, revs further but my bike is a one kicker 99% of the time, not so with the extra advance of the XR4 CDI. Not like its really hard to start w/ the other CDI but it's not a one kicker when that's installed.

You mentioned better mileage, what are you getting now? 48mpg is pretty normal for DS rides on my bike, significantly lower (35~40ish) when it's run hard.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:40 PM   #11522
FlyGuy
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Location: Middle of Highway 1 California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRPsa View Post
Flyguy,

nice work, and nice idea - but did you measure where that standard leading edge is, with regard to TDC I mean?
I hunch it will be at or just past TDC - mind, just guessing here, but I think it will be.
Once it starts the revs pick up, and the CDI will adjust to 6 degs btdc - for a very good reason.

Honda went through costly trouble to prevent this bike from backfiring & breaking one's ankles/legs, the auto-decomp system one of them. This is a big slug mind, it can wreak havoc. If it reverses direction a valve is lifted almost instantaneously, thus almost immediately relieving the pressure hence the force on the kicker's leg, it simply bleeds it away.
But, such an intricate mechanical system (again, costly) only makes sense when the ignition plays its part too, and this is why I hunch that edge is at TDC - where it fires when kicked!

Now you've added 4 degs static, advance, and therefore the firing will take place before tdc when kicking it. Yeah, it's very little, but it enables the engine to backfire - which it almost cannot do in std form, pls note (if I'm correct).
Not too much of a problem I think if you've got the std camshaft with the bleed-on-reversal thingy still in place, but it will be when a hotcam (no thingy!) is installed.... which prolly has a h/c piston too then.

I tell you what, I'm shitscared to be kicked by a 650, it is actually one of the aspects why I love this bike so much, because it does not because it (almost) can not.tor
Pls measure where that std-edge is if you haven't done so already?
I need to check timing with a timing light (advance type)
But I Suspect (have not verified) that the trigger interrupter (Bump on flywheel) is 25 degrees across
On start up and below 3600 rpm it ignores the rising portion as it first crosses the interrupter
and triggers on the falling portion of the interrupter 25 degrees later (initial timing)
then at 3600 RPM it switches to the forward portion of the interrupter and advances 25 degrees?
So if my theory is right then I will be at the original timing on start then at 3600 rpm I will get a extra 4.5 degrees to the original 25 degrees of timing because of the add on I welded in place.
Or to advance the initial timing I need to remove material from the backside of the interrupter.
Hope that makes sense?
I will soon do the timing light test to verify.
I rode 50 miles today and like how its working but not sure what has happened to initial timing.
starts are normal so far
If your interested I will let you known on timing light results?
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Old 11-27-2011, 09:07 PM   #11523
FlyGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
As far as I'm concerned, the jury's out on the XR4 CDI, yeah it's a little faster, revs further but my bike is a one kicker 99% of the time, not so with the extra advance of the XR4 CDI. Not like its really hard to start w/ the other CDI but it's not a one kicker when that's installed.

You mentioned better mileage, what are you getting now? 48mpg is pretty normal for DS rides on my bike, significantly lower (35~40ish) when it's run hard.
I am running 16-40 gearing and DS tires at 25 PSI

I am jetted on the lean side at sea level. I get a slight lean surge on colder day
I run conservative on the road (most of the time) and commute 50 miles round trip.
My commute is mostly highway 45-70 mph and around 30 stop points

My best mileage was 53 mpg and 47 mpg on the low side with an average of 50 mpg very consistently

My next most economical vehicle a Toyota 4runner only gets 17 mpg on the same commute.

I am really happy with the XR and like to call it my economy vehicle as it has allowed me to keep more money in my pocket ridding it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:14 AM   #11524
BuRPsa
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Flyguy,

yes, I'm interested indeed, so pls keep me posted - however, I'm sure I'm not the only one, so pls keep posting here?

How I think (mind, I dunno for sure!) the black-box works is following:
On startup it will 'see' a trigger signal (coming from the pickup), and it will fire the plug instantaneously (that is, without any delay or advancing). Could be triggering on the leading (I think so) or trailing edge, but it will fire immediately, as soon as it sees it.
When it is running (even at very very low revs) it sees many trigger points, and therefore it will know the revs per minute, the engine speed. It also will have (built-in by Honda) a kind of data-table (yes, could be an analogue one too, but never mind) pertaining to the ignition curve, the advancing-degrees per certain rev's, and it will adjust the firing accordingly.
This means that it fires at TDC on startup (ie kicking it) - if that leading edge is indeed at TDC!!
But, as soon as the engine runs it will also see an engine speed, and will immediately advance accordingly - you say 6 degs at idle.
And this means that measuring with a strobe-light will tell you zilch - as you will measure at idle speed, a LOT higher speed than when kicking it!
Therefore you will have to mechanically measure where that edge is positioned, it is the only way. Sorry Bru, but that should be easy-ish if you make some markers on the flywheel through the hole.

Your assumption that it will "change" from trailing to leading edge is wrong, sorry, it will 'see' the same edge at all revs. Besides, a sudden jump from 25 degrees would be way too coarse, we'd all feel it.
The fact that that blob has a certain length (you say ~25 degs) is for obtaining a 'true' signal, more stable than a short spike. The old 'dwell' with breaker points is somewhat comparable here (and wrong too, meant for those better electrically educated than I am).

It would be nice if some electronics-boffin would chime in here! I only have a 'fair' knowledge of electronics but by no means am I to be believed just because it says so here. RF, Luke, Crypto, any takers who know how these boxes work, rather than me guessing here?


RF,

I actually have that (the proper) XR400 unit installed, and am quite happy with it. Mind, not top-speed tested (yet, and wonder if I'll ever), but for the lows & mids I've compared enough to convince me I'll keep it in. More responsive, bit more ooph, easier wheellift, come on now, I like it
Oh, bugger the higher ceiling, in fact I think that's the only drawback of it.
But, haven't noticed any different starting, still first kick - after some 'cycling kicks' (with decomp + ign-off) which I used to do anyway. But also, haven't dumped it (yet, yeah) so I'll keep your remark in mind, and maybe should take the std unit along on long trips to test at some stage.

BuRPsa screwed with this post 11-28-2011 at 03:18 AM Reason: spelling
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:47 AM   #11525
RideFreak
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Location: Out in the NM Dez somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRPsa View Post
RF,

I actually have that (the proper) XR400 unit installed, and am quite happy with it. Mind, not top-speed tested (yet, and wonder if I'll ever), but for the lows & mids I've compared enough to convince me I'll keep it in. More responsive, bit more ooph, easier wheellift, come on now, I like it
Oh, bugger the higher ceiling, in fact I think that's the only drawback of it.
But, haven't noticed any different starting, still first kick - after some 'cycling kicks' (with decomp + ign-off) which I used to do anyway. But also, haven't dumped it (yet, yeah) so I'll keep your remark in mind, and maybe should take the std unit along on long trips to test at some stage.

The box definately adds some oomph, riding out here in the desert we get allot of wheelspin, the motor gets right up to revlimiter, I didn't want to subject it to the extra RPMs regularily with a stock top end.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:51 PM   #11526
FlyGuy
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XR650 ignition timing revealed

I have advanced the timing on my XR and wanted to advise of my findings
I have tested the results with a advance settable timing lamp
And for a easy to digest format I used a picture to show my results YIPPIE
Hope this is of help understanding what happens?

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Old 11-28-2011, 02:10 PM   #11527
wreckinshop
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Parts?

Hey I just picked up a cherry 01, where is the best place for after market parts for these bikes. Preferably a one stop shop.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:31 PM   #11528
XRx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckinshop View Post
Hey I just picked up a cherry 01, where is the best place for after market parts for these bikes. Preferably a one stop shop.
Assuming you mean online, lots of stuff here...

http://shop.thumpertalk.com/
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:04 PM   #11529
Agent2
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Also, XR's Only has lots of stuff for the R. Can be hit or miss on when you get the parts. I have always had good luck, have read about others waiting for their stuff to arrive.

http://www.xrsonly.com/dirt-bike-par...s/honda-xr650r
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:10 PM   #11530
aiMhi
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Location: SODE- Colorado
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Suspension question

Hi - I need some advice on servicing my 2004 xr650r rear suspension.

I was able to remove bearing #3 since I could tap it out by the metal collar/washer but no luck on #1& #2 since I tried to pry it out with a screwdriver but afraid of damaging the dust seal. Any trick to this or continue prying..?

My God - the grease in there was more like green - runny - goop.

Thanks guys!
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:24 PM   #11531
thebigman
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This has gotta go

I was gonna give this Fork Brace to someone for Christmas but things have changed ,

anyone interested in this please pm me , for all XR650R

Spankin New Never Mounted


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Old 11-28-2011, 04:51 PM   #11532
jm-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarkBRP View Post
Hi - I need some advice on servicing my 2004 xr650r rear suspension.

I was able to remove bearing #3 since I could tap it out by the metal collar/washer but no luck on #1& #2 since I tried to pry it out with a screwdriver but afraid of damaging the dust seal. Any trick to this or continue prying..?

My God - the grease in there was more like green - runny - goop.

Thanks guys!

LarkBRP
Remove the seals with a screwdriver or other device
Use a socket with outside diameter slightly smaller than the bearings OD to push it out
Place a socket on the opposite side large enough to clear the bearings OD
Line all three up, place in a large vice and use as a press to push out the bearing.
Sound confusing but is obvious when done the first time.
Good luck,

JM

p.s. definately wont be able to re-use the bearings again.[/QUOTE]
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:51 PM   #11533
Oddfellow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealbigman View Post
I was gonna give this Fork Brace to someone for Christmas but things have changed ,

anyone interested in this please pm me , for all XR650R

Spankin New Never Mounted


PM sent!
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:22 PM   #11534
aiMhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm-2008 View Post
LarkBRP
Remove the seals with a screwdriver or other device
Use a socket with outside diameter slightly smaller than the bearings OD to push it out
Place a socket on the opposite side large enough to clear the bearings OD
Line all three up, place in a large vice and use as a press to push out the bearing.
Sound confusing but is obvious when done the first time.
Good luck,

JM

p.s. definately wont be able to re-use the bearings again.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks JM I was hoping you were not going to say to do this, but thanks for the explanation it makes perfectly sense. The bearings are $17 a pop and I would need 5 of them!

Does anyone just clean it out with solvent and regrease them? I dont like destroying things in perfectly good shape and just need to get new grease in there. Bike has less than 2K - 3K on it.

Thoughts guys?

Thnx
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:26 PM   #11535
XRx
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Quote:

Thanks JM I was hoping you were not going to say to do this, but thanks for the explanation it makes perfectly sense. The bearings are $17 a pop and I would need 5 of them!

Does anyone just clean it out with solvent and regrease them? I dont like destroying things in perfectly good shape and just need to get new grease in there. Bike has less than 2K - 3K on it.

Thoughts guys?

Thnx
I did similar with my steering bearings, though they were easier to clean I think. I sprayed wd40 on them, worked them around, more wd, worked them more, repeat, repeat, repeat 'til clean/smooth, then stuffed them with grease. Steering bearings felt like new after, which was a huge improvement over the previous scariness! Not sure how easy to do this to the swingarm bearings though as they are internal.
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