ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-13-2012, 07:59 AM   #12526
dohcfox
meh
 
dohcfox's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 138
Hard Starting XRR

Morning all...

So I've been commuting on my new to me XRR for the last month or so and have noticed some interesting starting issues. First off, the bike refuses to start with the choke in the on position, either at the first or second detent. It'll only start with the choke off, and requires me to apply throttle once the motor fires off in order to keep running. Once she's running, she runs like a champ and pulls with no flat spots or hiccups. The other thing is that the XRR requires many kicks to get running; maybe 10 to 20 when cold. The bike starts very easily when warm; one kick easily.

So far, the bike has been rejetted with the 'uncork' recommmended jet sizes, in addition to all of the other uncorking stuff.

Any ideas?

Thanks!!

JT
dohcfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 11:06 AM   #12527
GoinRidin
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Oddometer: 49
If its properly jetted you won't need much if any choke (unless real cold outside temps compared to what its tuned for). Choke is to richen it up enough to start a leaner running bike. If yours runs fine once warm I would bet its probably on the slightly rich side and your idle may be set a little low if it takes some throttle to keep it running when cold.

make sure you aren't giving too much if any throttle while starting, should be jetted to not require throttle, (tip: squeeze the front brake as well and it will help you not to inadvertently give too much throttle)

Do you remember what jetting you are using? and mixture screw turns you are using?

The only adjustments I'd suggest is bump up your idle, then don't use throttle when starting and find out how many turns out your mixture screw is from full in (lightly seated). If the idle and no throttle doesn't help close the screw in 1/4 turn increments to see if that helps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dohcfox View Post
Morning all...

So I've been commuting on my new to me XRR for the last month or so and have noticed some interesting starting issues. First off, the bike refuses to start with the choke in the on position, either at the first or second detent. It'll only start with the choke off, and requires me to apply throttle once the motor fires off in order to keep running. Once she's running, she runs like a champ and pulls with no flat spots or hiccups. The other thing is that the XRR requires many kicks to get running; maybe 10 to 20 when cold. The bike starts very easily when warm; one kick easily.

So far, the bike has been rejetted with the 'uncork' recommmended jet sizes, in addition to all of the other uncorking stuff.

Any ideas?

Thanks!!

JT
GoinRidin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #12528
Burgman
n00b
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: The Great North Wet
Oddometer: 1
A little about what you did ?

Hi All, I am in the middle of rebuilding my 04 XRR, and have been curious about the stock aluminum sub-frame .
The bash plate on the bike when I bought it was basically scrap metal ! but most of the rest was OK , so I was kinda expecting to see some stress cracks on the sub-frame, none anywhere! the top frame mount was ovaled a little on both sides, TPO had a billet rack mounted, one bolt was sheared. So to get to the question, I am planning on loading my bike with the same type bags and eqipment and tools, are you running the stock sub-frame or have you reinforced it ? The rest of the BRP riders here, what is the percentage that find the stock set up adaquate or working fine, to those that have found it neessary or prudent to replace with steel or re-inforce with more aluminum ?
The direction I am leaning now is,a steel suf-frame along with a bolt-on steel cargo rack that has lashing points and lighting mounts. I am looking at a l.e.d. strip type light w/ tail-stop-and turn all in one, that will mount up under the
cargo rack, and still alow the plate/ holder below it. If the rack is detachable it can be repaired or replaced seperate
from the sub-frame.
Burgman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #12529
crypto666
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: The best trails in Nevada
Oddometer: 1,196
Check you valve gap (lash). I have heard that tight exhaust valve lash will make it hard starting too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dohcfox View Post
Morning all...

So I've been commuting on my new to me XRR for the last month or so and have noticed some interesting starting issues. First off, the bike refuses to start with the choke in the on position, either at the first or second detent. It'll only start with the choke off, and requires me to apply throttle once the motor fires off in order to keep running. Once she's running, she runs like a champ and pulls with no flat spots or hiccups. The other thing is that the XRR requires many kicks to get running; maybe 10 to 20 when cold. The bike starts very easily when warm; one kick easily.

So far, the bike has been rejetted with the 'uncork' recommmended jet sizes, in addition to all of the other uncorking stuff.

Any ideas?

Thanks!!

JT
crypto666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 01:47 PM   #12530
dohcfox
meh
 
dohcfox's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 138
Hey, thank for all of the advice! I'll certainly try what you've suggested. I am however always very careful not to open the throttle when kicking the bike over. I only apply throttle once the motor lights off, to keep it running.

Thank you!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoinRidin View Post
If its properly jetted you won't need much if any choke (unless real cold outside temps compared to what its tuned for). Choke is to richen it up enough to start a leaner running bike. If yours runs fine once warm I would bet its probably on the slightly rich side and your idle may be set a little low if it takes some throttle to keep it running when cold.

make sure you aren't giving too much if any throttle while starting, should be jetted to not require throttle, (tip: squeeze the front brake as well and it will help you not to inadvertently give too much throttle)

Do you remember what jetting you are using? and mixture screw turns you are using?

The only adjustments I'd suggest is bump up your idle, then don't use throttle when starting and find out how many turns out your mixture screw is from full in (lightly seated). If the idle and no throttle doesn't help close the screw in 1/4 turn increments to see if that helps.
dohcfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 01:48 PM   #12531
dohcfox
meh
 
dohcfox's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 138
I might have a look at that too, if I can't resolve starting with adjustments in the fuel screw and idle setting. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
Check you valve gap (lash). I have heard that tight exhaust valve lash will make it hard starting too.
dohcfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 02:06 PM   #12532
Gildus
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Gildus's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Oddometer: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgman View Post
Hi All, I am in the middle of rebuilding my 04 XRR, and have been curious about the stock aluminum sub-frame .
The bash plate on the bike when I bought it was basically scrap metal ! but most of the rest was OK , so I was kinda expecting to see some stress cracks on the sub-frame, none anywhere! the top frame mount was ovaled a little on both sides, TPO had a billet rack mounted, one bolt was sheared. So to get to the question, I am planning on loading my bike with the same type bags and eqipment and tools, are you running the stock sub-frame or have you reinforced it ? The rest of the BRP riders here, what is the percentage that find the stock set up adaquate or working fine, to those that have found it neessary or prudent to replace with steel or re-inforce with more aluminum ?
The direction I am leaning now is,a steel suf-frame along with a bolt-on steel cargo rack that has lashing points and lighting mounts. I am looking at a l.e.d. strip type light w/ tail-stop-and turn all in one, that will mount up under the
cargo rack, and still alow the plate/ holder below it. If the rack is detachable it can be repaired or replaced seperate
from the sub-frame.
Some have used the stock subframe with heavy loads without a problem - others have had them fail under moderate/light loads. From the posts I've seen, there doesn't seem to be a pattern to the failures, i.e. loose bolts, etc. It may just be an issue of metal fatigue over time. I was looking at the steel subframe too but decided to reinforce the stock aluminum one. It's a lot cheaper and lighter. If I was planning an epic trip with a seriously overloaded XRR, I might go with with steel but not otherwise. Just my 2 cents ....
Gildus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 04:26 PM   #12533
Ironwood
Friday Harbor, WA
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Oddometer: 710
Sub-Frame

Re-enforcement makes sense to me. So where are the common failure points on the sub-frame? Thanks, Joe
Ironwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 04:51 PM   #12534
Jungle Man
frenzied adventurer
 
Jungle Man's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Camas Washington
Oddometer: 371
Sub frame reiforcements.

Check on page 834. There is a good picture of a strengthened sub-frame. They usually fail where they are through bolted to the frame up top.
__________________
50% of our maintenance is caused by 50% of our maintenance.
-Dave
Ride it like you stole it
"If you're too busy to hunt and fish, you're too busy"
Jase-Duck Dynasty
Jungle Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 05:07 PM   #12535
Gildus
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Gildus's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Oddometer: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironwood View Post
Re-enforcement makes sense to me. So where are the common failure points on the sub-frame? Thanks, Joe


Gildus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2012, 06:33 PM   #12536
Cumbacheech
XRated
 
Cumbacheech's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Bolton, ON
Oddometer: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMZens View Post
Loaded up!



4 hours later found Hunt's Lodge to dry out and revel in a day well spent in the Smokys!
That is one BAD ASS XRR!!
__________________
2001 XR650L - Done for now...!!

Pics: Adventure setup, SUMO setup, Dirt setup
Cumbacheech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 12:05 AM   #12537
Sean-0
Closed
 
Sean-0's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Oztraya Mate
Oddometer: 4,175
i think most subframe issue's come from the owner not setting suspension up correctly ....this has a lot to do with carrying loads
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by philth View Post
if you must lube your chain, smegma is a good product
Sean-0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 04:01 AM   #12538
BuRPsa
Finally growing up..
 
BuRPsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Pretoria
Oddometer: 548
Fox,

allow me a thick question: do you know how to start this bike?
I'm asking because you mentioned 20 kicks or so, and if this would be normal for this bugger then I'd hate the thing... but love it instead, zero need for a fag button.
1 kick, maybe 2 are required..... however, that's the "power"-kick, pls note. On 'cold' starts (not minus gazillion, no gletchers neither frozen deers, just on a coolish morning) set the choke on the first click (not closed), cycle the kickstarter a few times (3? Whatever, a few) whilst pulling the decomp and with closed throttle. Then kick without pulling the decomp until it gets 'hard', pull the decomp and inch the kickstarter an inch down further. Then come up with the kickstarter and hammer it down, and don't even touch the throttle.
If that does not do it on first try, or the second, then up the idling screw (the slide-screw, the stopper!) a bit, and repeat all.
I up the screw most of the time when cold, but then again it never gets real cold here. And mind, my male chicken on a block mine is jetted correct.
This "upping" of the screw is very little so btw, it will idle just quick enough to get some heat in, and I quickly - after letting the choke go of course) turn it back again. As a matter of interest, this exact procedure is identical for the std carb as well as the TM40 (no, I don't have to squeeze some juice in, however that helps I'll admit).

If the above does not work there's something wrong: foul/old plug, or carb-settings, dirt or whatever, but you better find it. This bike starts very easy if all is right.
If you knew all of this - sorry for the lecture bru, find what's wrong.
BuRPsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 04:23 AM   #12539
BuRPsa
Finally growing up..
 
BuRPsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Pretoria
Oddometer: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean-0 View Post
i think most subframe issue's come from the owner not setting suspension up correctly ....this has a lot to do with carrying loads
You clever dick you
'Course it has, plus add that sitting types (me mostly. Anyone else?) will add to possible woes.
I don't think this is a real "weak" spot, like a flaw in the design, as it was designed a racer.
But start adding luggage, an arse, bad setup and other types of abuse, and it just mgith say 'no more'.


There is an easy patch for this though.
Drill out the thread of the threaded LH-side (size drill same as the hole in the RH-side), and put a bit longer bolt through the lot, then add a washer and a nut (a nyloc one I'd recommend).
This way both sides of the square tubing, on both sides of the frame, are equally loaded in tension - instead of on the LH-side on ONE side of the square tubing only.... hence the cracking/tearing here, and always only here!
No welding, just a drill + bolt.
Use it, don.t...
BuRPsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 06:50 AM   #12540
dohcfox
meh
 
dohcfox's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Oddometer: 138
Hey, no worries, I've got thick skin! And I thank you for taking the time to write so much about the proper starting routine for the XRR. :cheers:

Anyways, it turns out that the starting routine that you mention is the exact same routine that I use: pull in decomp, cycle the motor a few times, let out the decomp, cycle until you find the hard spot, pull in decomp and push the kicker just a hair further, and kick, all the the way down to the foot peg.

It's been cold up here in these parts; about 3 degrees celcius when I ride to work in the morning. That said, I might have a look at the idle setting, although it seems to idle at an acceptible RPM. Did I mention earlier that the bike starts up super easy when warm? Rides absolutely wonderful too. LOTS of power.

The guy that sold me the bike also included the specs on the jets that he put in the carb. I'll try to find them and then post them here.

Hey, enjoy that warm weather you lucky SOB! Take care! JT

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRPsa View Post
Fox,

allow me a thick question: do you know how to start this bike?
I'm asking because you mentioned 20 kicks or so, and if this would be normal for this bugger then I'd hate the thing... but love it instead, zero need for a fag button.
1 kick, maybe 2 are required..... however, that's the "power"-kick, pls note. On 'cold' starts (not minus gazillion, no gletchers neither frozen deers, just on a coolish morning) set the choke on the first click (not closed), cycle the kickstarter a few times (3? Whatever, a few) whilst pulling the decomp and with closed throttle. Then kick without pulling the decomp until it gets 'hard', pull the decomp and inch the kickstarter an inch down further. Then come up with the kickstarter and hammer it down, and don't even touch the throttle.
If that does not do it on first try, or the second, then up the idling screw (the slide-screw, the stopper!) a bit, and repeat all.
I up the screw most of the time when cold, but then again it never gets real cold here. And mind, my male chicken on a block mine is jetted correct.
This "upping" of the screw is very little so btw, it will idle just quick enough to get some heat in, and I quickly - after letting the choke go of course) turn it back again. As a matter of interest, this exact procedure is identical for the std carb as well as the TM40 (no, I don't have to squeeze some juice in, however that helps I'll admit).

If the above does not work there's something wrong: foul/old plug, or carb-settings, dirt or whatever, but you better find it. This bike starts very easy if all is right.
If you knew all of this - sorry for the lecture bru, find what's wrong.
dohcfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014