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Old 07-02-2012, 05:56 AM   #13756
babuja
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Valve adjust infos

Hi guys,

need some help about valve ajustment. I've never adjusted any valve but I feel the need to do it as I live in angola and canīt find any relieable mechanics and ear some tick tick that I assume is valve need for adjustment.

This a new bike from 2007 and has about 2000km.

Where can I find proper info about this job, like valve adjustment for noobies?

Tnks guys
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babuja screwed with this post 07-03-2012 at 01:28 AM
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:02 AM   #13757
Agent2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babuja View Post
Hi guys,

need some help about valve ajustment. I've never adjusted any valve but I feel the need to do it as live in angola, canīt find any mechanics and ear some tick tick that I asume is valve need for adjustment.

This a new bike from 2007 and has about 2000km.

Where can I find proper info about this job, like valve adjustment for noobies?

Tnks guys
This site - http://www.xr650r.us/ is a must read for pig owners. Go to Tech Tidbits and the valve adjust is there. One thing, I don't remove the side cover, just the inspection plug, and center the "T" in there.
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:26 AM   #13758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent2 View Post
and center the "T" in there.

Easier said then done! =)

My plug won't even come out anymore. I'm afraid of stripping it.

Just get it to the right part in the stroke when both valves are fully closed and you can check from there. First few times I'd line up the T though for sure. It's a fine line to get it to that sweet spot though.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:33 AM   #13759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent2 View Post
This site - http://www.xr650r.us/ is a must read for pig owners. Go to Tech Tidbits and the valve adjust is there. One thing, I don't remove the side cover, just the inspection plug, and center the "T" in there.
Could never open this site: http://www.xr650r.us/


always get this mesage:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access / on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Apache Server at www.xr650r.us Port 80
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:40 AM   #13760
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"Valve adjustment for noobies"

'Ere ya are mate, and note this is a com-ple-te-ly different procedure than Honda prints in their manual - however a lot more easy:

Make sure the engine is cold.
Take off tank, and wash the engine's top & framebits as the bare minimum.
Take off the valve covers first, then take out plug (so the small bolts cannot fall into the cylinder - duh).
Put bike on a stand (jack, not sidestand), and put it in 5th gear.
Rotate the rear wheel forward - on this, do not EVER rotate it backwards or allow it to turn back (block it with a piece of wood through the spokes or whatever) as even a little of this will mess with the auto-decomp system on this bike which will lift an exhaust valve!! So no 'back', nothing!
Turn rearwheel fwd until you've convinced yourself that first the intakes go down, then up, and next the exhaust valves do ditto (hey, you said 'noobies' )
Turn even more forward, but maybe slower this time, until you actually notice that at a certain point, just when the intakes come up again, the exhaust valves ALSO start to move - which is correct, any 4stroke does this, not to worry.
Now rotate the wheel slow, very slow, until the exhaust valves are just about at their deepest point... then stop rotating, and block the wheel if necessary.
Now adjust the intake valves as per below.
To adjust the exhaust valves you turn (again, always forward only) the wheel until the intake valves are somewhere at their deepest point. As a sidenote, the exhaust valves are more difficult to reach on this bike, less handspace available.

Adjusting valves.
Valveplay is to be: Intake: 0.15mm (0.006"), Exhaust 0.20mm (0.008").
The valves to adjust will have some play, they are loose, which can be felt, so check this, move the rocker up & down - see? If no play make sure (by rotating rear wheel forward, see above) that the other valves are quite a bit down if not fully down. If this is the case but you still feel no play then know you did postpone adjusting for too long, the play's gone... which is a bad thing.
However, there normally is a bit of play.
Take the correct-thickness feeler gauge and make sure it is spotlessly clean - then try to slide it inbetween rocker & valve. They slide-in best sideways, but find your own best way.
If it goes in - just - and feels not too tight but also not too loose (this is experience which noobies do not have, sorry, however they can learn this by doing all this often) then that valve is set perfect.
If either too loose or when the feeler gauge won't go in, undo the locking-nut with a ringspanner (10mm, spotlessly clean - and only morons use open ended spanners) whilst holding the actual adjuster with a well-fitting screwdriver (which also is spotlessly clean). The idea is to loose the nut whilst the adjuster stays where it is. Once loose wind the nut a half turn up (more loose).
Now turn the adjuster with the screwdriver-only (yes, the nut will also turn) until the feeler gauge just goes in & and can be slid to & fro - just, tot too loose, not too tight.
Now hold the adjuster into position with the screwdriver whilst you turn the nut tight - of course by sliding the screwdriver through the ringspanner. Watchitnow, this only sounds easy, but in practise the adjuster wants to turn with the nut when tightening it - and it may not turn!
Try, fiddle & try again, but get the nut locked whilst the feeler gauge still just slides inbetween the adjuster & rocker. If this is the case then the valve is set correctly... so proceed with the other one(s).
How much torque for those nuts? Never mind the manual, they must be tight whilst not over-tightened (refer remark above regarding experience), but basic gutfeel will get you there. MIND though, it is less than the force you needed to loosen them in the first place! There is oil now inbetween you see, so this lubes the lot now. Apply a bit less for tightening than for taking them loose.

If this all reads daunting then relax, there's a way to check yourself.
Say you 'think' you set the In's to 0.15 - because this size feeler goes in.
Good - does the 0.20 also go in?
It should not, so if it does re-adjust that valve, but a notch tighter this time.
Got a 0.18 feeler in the set? This one should not go in either, however with enough force one can do anything... or cut your fingers


Once you get handier with this, here's an idea. Next time, before you loosen the nuts, you first measure what the actual play is! You may want to write this down for later, may come in handy. Valves 'move' you see, they normally become tighter over time (due to wear), and at a certain point in life this goes quick to fast even... and this point you want to notice, before it get really expensive. This is the time where you take the top off, however, with your new bike this is a loooong way to go still.

Have fun doing this. If you really will be doing this for the first time I'd advise to, after having adjusted all, rotate the wheel again a bit, and then check your own settings. If done correct it all will be fine, but this will give you piece of mind. Also check all nuts before you close her up - and if you turn one then you must re-adjust that valve again.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:46 AM   #13761
Agent2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
Easier said then done! =)

My plug won't even come out anymore. I'm afraid of stripping it.

Just get it to the right part in the stroke when both valves are fully closed and you can check from there. First few times I'd line up the T though for sure. It's a fine line to get it to that sweet spot though.
Brings up a discussion I had over beers and a bonfire, rider said he didn't look for "the sweet spot" of TDC on the compression stroke. if the intake rockers are compressed, he adjusted the exhausts, when the exhaust rockers started to open, he adjusted the intakes. I still look for the sweet spot, but any debating his method of adjusting valves?
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:01 PM   #13762
babuja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRPsa View Post
"Valve adjustment for noobies"

'Ere ya are mate, and note this is a com-ple-te-ly different procedure than Honda prints in their manual - however a lot more easy:

Make sure the engine is cold.
Take off tank, and wash the engine's top & framebits as the bare minimum.
Take off the valve covers first, then take out plug (so the small bolts cannot fall into the cylinder - duh).
Put bike on a stand (jack, not sidestand), and put it in 5th gear.
Rotate the rear wheel forward - on this, do not EVER rotate it backwards or allow it to turn back (block it with a piece of wood through the spokes or whatever) as even a little of this will mess with the auto-decomp system on this bike which will lift an exhaust valve!! So no 'back', nothing!
Turn rearwheel fwd until you've convinced yourself that first the intakes go down, then up, and next the exhaust valves do ditto (hey, you said 'noobies' )
Turn even more forward, but maybe slower this time, until you actually notice that at a certain point, just when the intakes come up again, the exhaust valves ALSO start to move - which is correct, any 4stroke does this, not to worry.
Now rotate the wheel slow, very slow, until the exhaust valves are just about at their deepest point... then stop rotating, and block the wheel if necessary.
Now adjust the intake valves as per below.
To adjust the exhaust valves you turn (again, always forward only) the wheel until the intake valves are somewhere at their deepest point. As a sidenote, the exhaust valves are more difficult to reach on this bike, less handspace available.

Adjusting valves.
Valveplay is to be: Intake: 0.15mm (0.006"), Exhaust 0.20mm (0.008").
The valves to adjust will have some play, they are loose, which can be felt, so check this, move the rocker up & down - see? If no play make sure (by rotating rear wheel forward, see above) that the other valves are quite a bit down if not fully down. If this is the case but you still feel no play then know you did postpone adjusting for too long, the play's gone... which is a bad thing.
However, there normally is a bit of play.
Take the correct-thickness feeler gauge and make sure it is spotlessly clean - then try to slide it inbetween rocker & valve. They slide-in best sideways, but find your own best way.
If it goes in - just - and feels not too tight but also not too loose (this is experience which noobies do not have, sorry, however they can learn this by doing all this often) then that valve is set perfect.
If either too loose or when the feeler gauge won't go in, undo the locking-nut with a ringspanner (10mm, spotlessly clean - and only morons use open ended spanners) whilst holding the actual adjuster with a well-fitting screwdriver (which also is spotlessly clean). The idea is to loose the nut whilst the adjuster stays where it is. Once loose wind the nut a half turn up (more loose).
Now turn the adjuster with the screwdriver-only (yes, the nut will also turn) until the feeler gauge just goes in & and can be slid to & fro - just, tot too loose, not too tight.
Now hold the adjuster into position with the screwdriver whilst you turn the nut tight - of course by sliding the screwdriver through the ringspanner. Watchitnow, this only sounds easy, but in practise the adjuster wants to turn with the nut when tightening it - and it may not turn!
Try, fiddle & try again, but get the nut locked whilst the feeler gauge still just slides inbetween the adjuster & rocker. If this is the case then the valve is set correctly... so proceed with the other one(s).
How much torque for those nuts? Never mind the manual, they must be tight whilst not over-tightened (refer remark above regarding experience), but basic gutfeel will get you there. MIND though, it is less than the force you needed to loosen them in the first place! There is oil now inbetween you see, so this lubes the lot now. Apply a bit less for tightening than for taking them loose.

If this all reads daunting then relax, there's a way to check yourself.
Say you 'think' you set the In's to 0.15 - because this size feeler goes in.
Good - does the 0.20 also go in?
It should not, so if it does re-adjust that valve, but a notch tighter this time.
Got a 0.18 feeler in the set? This one should not go in either, however with enough force one can do anything... or cut your fingers


Once you get handier with this, here's an idea. Next time, before you loosen the nuts, you first measure what the actual play is! You may want to write this down for later, may come in handy. Valves 'move' you see, they normally become tighter over time (due to wear), and at a certain point in life this goes quick to fast even... and this point you want to notice, before it get really expensive. This is the time where you take the top off, however, with your new bike this is a loooong way to go still.

Have fun doing this. If you really will be doing this for the first time I'd advise to, after having adjusted all, rotate the wheel again a bit, and then check your own settings. If done correct it all will be fine, but this will give you piece of mind. Also check all nuts before you close her up - and if you turn one then you must re-adjust that valve again.
Tnks for all the infos...I'll get the tools and print copy of this "how to"
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babuja screwed with this post 07-02-2012 at 01:09 PM
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:15 PM   #13763
BuRPsa
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Agent,

zero debate required, this works, no, better, this is correct to do this.
It is the result of cams having their groundcircles plus the fact that 'somewhere deepest' is more than 90 crank-degrees apart. To be honest I do this with 4 cylinder engines too, I just feel which valves are open, then adjust their opposites - which you check first by feeling their play. Failsafe & quick.
The problem comes with engines which need their valves set 'hot'...... that feeling you see


Re-reading your " when the exhaust rockers started to open, he adjusted the intakes. " ..... that is WRONG!
It also is not what I said: I said 'deep' or deepest point', which is quite a bit different than 'starting to open'.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:22 PM   #13764
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Guess we were writing at the same time, I should have waited 10 minutes to read your post, answers that question.
On the feeler gauges, I have a dedicated set for the pig which I bent into the correct shapes to get into the hard spots, as said especially the exhausts.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:35 PM   #13765
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Awwwww, come on now, spoilsport, you give all the tricks away for the Angolian!!!!


He's right Babuja, that's what you should do to make life easy. Bend them so you can reach them, and remember to oil them before you store them away.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:05 PM   #13766
babuja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burpsa View Post
awwwww, come on now, spoilsport, you give all the tricks away for the angolian!!!!


he's right babuja, that's what you should do to make life easy. Bend them so you can reach them, and remember to oil them before you store them away.

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Old 07-02-2012, 04:31 PM   #13767
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i saw the post a few pages back about Kush sprockets, but was wondering if anyone else had anything to say about them. my 650 is strickly a street machine now so i think one would be a good idea if it would hold up decent. also what is everyone running for a clutch? mine is starting so slip when i get on it real hard. Also r u guys replacing the spring at the same time. mine is an 01 so ill be getting the upgraded clutch bushing at that time since idk if it was replaced by the po or not

dirtard screwed with this post 07-02-2012 at 04:37 PM
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:04 AM   #13768
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Wouldn't be easiar to find the TDC with a pequelisse introduced in the spark plug hole and finding the minimum distance to the piston (higher point)?

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:52 AM   #13769
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Debating - Possibly

[QUOTE=Agent2;19040567]Brings up a discussion I had over beers and a bonfire, rider said he didn't look for "the sweet spot" of TDC on the compression stroke. if the intake rockers are compressed, he adjusted the exhausts, when the exhaust rockers started to open, he adjusted the intakes. I still look for the sweet spot, but any debating his method of changing valves


Can do and most likely will be OK however some cams have, I believe 'quietening ramps' on part of the base circle to ease onto the lifter and avoid clatter/noise.
If these 'quietening ramps' are profiled on BRP cam base circles setting clearance on part of the 'quietening ramp' may give false clearance indications and the net result will in effect be unnecessary clearance = tapping/clatter/noise.
May or may not be the case with BRP cam's, however my preferred method is (and has been for decades) to push the kick starter down by hand until I see the inlets open and continue to push gently until they close, continue pressing gently until you feel it come up on compression.
Continue pressing gently till it hits TDC, (sweet spot etc) or just bumps over TDC, a little past is no big deal as at this point the motor will be on the power stroke phase and at least 180 degrees of crank rotation from the exhaust valve opening.
I adjust the valves at this point.
Works OK for me and I don't need to remove the plug, inspection caps on the L/H stator cover, mess with gears etc and I believe have better direct feel as to what the piston is doing via the kick start lever.

Note -
Burpsa's suggestion re measuring/documenting actual clearance prior to adjusting has a great deal of merit for monitoring wear trends.
Any rapid departure from normal trends can/will indicate pending issues.
Great idea, most of us just ride our bikes and apart from normal service do not give a great deal of thought to pending issues till they occur (me included) - certainly a great idea on long mileage BRP's.

As an aside, must say one of the pleasant aspects of this forum is the generous nature of many inmates and their willingness to part with (usually) hard earned information gleaned from experience.
I was told by a crusty old mechanic in the mid 1970's that 'experience comes at a cost in time and usually money, if someone is prepared to share their knowledge with you it costs nothing to listen but could cost a lot if you don't!
Of course what we do with the information is up to us, nonetheless thank you all for your willing contributions.
Will stop waxing philosophical now and end here!
Regards to all and stay safe,

JM-2008
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:00 AM   #13770
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[QUOTE=jm-2008;19045835]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent2 View Post
As an aside, must say one of the pleasant aspects of this forum is the generous nature of many inmates and their willingness to part with (usually) hard earned information gleaned from experience.
I was told by a crusty old mechanic in the mid 1970's that 'experience comes at a cost in time and usually money, if someone is prepared to share their knowledge with you it costs nothing to listen but could cost a lot if you don't!
Of course what we do with the information is up to us, nonetheless thank you all for your willing contributions.
Will stop waxing philosophical now and end here!
Regards to all and stay safe,

JM-2008
Agree and also tanks you all
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