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Old 05-27-2012, 08:46 PM   #4411
Callahan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamfslap View Post
How do you guys recommend cleaning up my buddy's engine. Were these engines bare metal or painted? 95 600R. I can't tell if it just needs cleaning or if paint is flaking off.
Ask MCMA as he had a great suggestion to me recently.

He is a wealth of information and does great work on these bikes too.

I think he said use baking soda through a sandblast gun from Harbor Freight.

Start with a super strong degreaser, "4U" and then .................

Callahan screwed with this post 05-27-2012 at 08:54 PM
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:53 AM   #4412
bamfslap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callahan View Post
Ask MCMA as he had a great suggestion to me recently.

He is a wealth of information and does great work on these bikes too.

I think he said use baking soda through a sandblast gun from Harbor Freight.

Start with a super strong degreaser, "4U" and then .................
Awesome, we'll try that and let you know how it goes! Should clean up nice. Thanks!
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:37 AM   #4413
mcma111
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^ What Callahan said.

Geeezz, I don't even have to answer questions anymore.
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87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:28 AM   #4414
deejay_xr
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Ok, I definitely need an oil cooler

My oil-temp gauge hit the 120* Celsius (248 F) mark this afternoon, where the scale on the gauge turns Satan-colored

Outside air temp was about 25 C (77 F), summer has more in stock than that so I'm screwed if I keep going like this.

What do you guys think, are these temperatures excessive ?
The oil cooler is coming either way, just want your opinions

Cheers !
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:19 AM   #4415
Callahan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
^ What Callahan said.

Geeezz, I don't even have to answer questions anymore.
yuo ar edducatin usz
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #4416
elsalvadorklr
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nope no you dont

Quote:
Originally Posted by deejay_xr View Post
Ok, I definitely need an oil cooler

My oil-temp gauge hit the 120* Celsius (248 F) mark this afternoon, where the scale on the gauge turns Satan-colored

Outside air temp was about 25 C (77 F), summer has more in stock than that so I'm screwed if I keep going like this.

What do you guys think, are these temperatures excessive ?
The oil cooler is coming either way, just want your opinions

Cheers !
you DEFINITELY DONT!

ideal temps are 225f, moisture/condensation in oil will evaporate at that temp and cooling is great at this temp

300f is the NOT DESIRED temp

I raced this saturday and posted temps too

this was hard clutch slipping uphill enduro crap and not once did the temp go above 260f,

on the other hand GUESS WHERE TEMPS WHERE THE HIGHEST?

going back home on the highway at 75mph, boring as hell YET the most hell the bike got during the day engine wise

so the answer would be if you plan on highspeed riding you need one...like a desert race or commuting, normal riding even enduro riding NO.

cheers

P.S. It felt great knowing DURING the race what my engine was oil temp wise, I kept the dipstick thermo on all the time

cheers
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:41 AM   #4417
deejay_xr
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Do you mean you think I DON'T need an oil cooler??

My oil is getting way hotter than I like, and it's gonna get hotter still, so I'm definitely getting a cooler.
Besides, I have the parts for the high compression big bore on the shelf, that's gonna happen somewhere in the future too.
All the more reason to get a cooler in preparation.

Most of my riding is cutting through traffic with quick bursts of the throttle and fairly high speed runs on local roads, with the occasional short stretch of highway. I still think it's strange that on high speed runs, with all that air rushing past the engine, it gets hotter than during the abuse on the trails with relatively no cooling.

Apparently it's really the high rpm's that cook the pig
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:49 AM   #4418
elsalvadorklr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deejay_xr View Post
Do you mean you think I DON'T need an oil cooler??

My oil is getting way hotter than I like, and it's gonna get hotter still, so I'm definitely getting a cooler.
Besides, I have the parts for the high compression big bore on the shelf, that's gonna happen somewhere in the future too.
All the more reason to get a cooler in preparation.

Most of my riding is cutting through traffic with quick bursts of the throttle and fairly high speed runs on local roads, with the occasional short stretch of highway. I still think it's strange that on high speed runs, with all that air rushing past the engine, it gets hotter than during the abuse on the trails with relatively no cooling.

Apparently it's really the high rpm's that cook the pig
yes I dont!

why do you think 245 is too hot? vent your fender maybe

that temp os better than having too cold oil...anything under 200f is bad....why have carbon deposits and moisture in your oil?

Ive been going back and forth on adding an oil cooler for ages, but everytome I come to the same conclusion...

1. its an aircooled awesome performing engine
2. its simple to work on
3. it has no radiator nor oil cooler and DOESNT need one if your ride normally

if I were to ever do a long desert race(i dream of) I would add an xr250 oil cooler or an xr400 cooler, roght where SCOTT SUMMERS did, up high and protected and where the best airflow is

simple

but If YOU feel unhappy with those temps then by all means add one man! its your bike!

cheers

p.s. my last race was in muddy(think less airflow to the engine) 100degree temps, very hot and humid jungle....and yes the highest temps WERE NOT there

this has been recorded and posted on many threads here and on tt and elsewhere, the most danger your bike will face is if you like to commute at high speeds on the highway...
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:35 PM   #4419
zipper2680
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El SalvadorKLR

Sorry, but i have to disagree with you..

All the 600 and 650 RFVC engines are prone to overheating....This is what i have noticed so far:

stock: XR600R

gets too hot easily...its a air/oil cooled engine...if the oil gets too hot, the oil will get burned, black as tarmac with just 1500-2000 kms...i noticed metal shavings and that metallic paste glued to the magnetic drain.Sorry but changing oil every 500kms is a waste of time and money that you can spent on gas and riding..

fully kitted XR640R

its not possible to run a fully kitted XR without a oil cooler.You can but the engine will last 1/3 of the time.Will get over 120C very very easily..

fully kitted XR640R+oil cooler+sinthetic oil

you can ride it all day long on highway or single tracks..the temperature as soon as gets 90-100C will stabilize.Does not get higher or lower. This is a perfect temperature between oil viscoity, oil lifetime and engine performance.
Why? Because the temperature you get on the frame is the lower temperature.In fact the engine is running hotter.The frame works as a oil cooler. When i say that im getting 90-100C this means that the oil after being cooled on the oil cooler, arrives to the frame at this temp.The engine is hotter.

I used to ride very hard on the street, and even so, beside the fact that the engine is completely upgraded and way more powerful, it does produce less metal residues. This proves that the engine is working better and will last longer. i have more than 15.000kms of hard riding on the streets and about 3.500 kms off-road.Its does not burn oil, starts easily hot or cold, and sounds great. The only thing i noticed about sinthetic oil, is the fact that you can ear the engine noises louder. But that is common with these kind of oils.

Completely Stock SLR650 (XR650L,Dominator,FMX,Vigor) engine:

oh boy....how fast can you say "burning hot"....eheheh...and then owners say: "I dont understand why my exhaust valves and seals are so burned up..." "My engine started burning oil only after 20.000kms...." "my RFVC is smoking blue on startup....what can this be?"



I can strongly say that my kitted engine will last longer that a stock 600 engine...period

Why cant people just admit that Honda enginneers failed when they did not install an oil cooler as stock like on the 400 and 250?Is it common to ear 250 and 400 complaining about constant overheating?


Even so, every one of us has the right of choice to install or not, an oil cooler.And i do respect that choice.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #4420
elsalvadorklr
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you disagree with me because of one VERY IMPORTANT difference in MAINTENANCE between you me and the manual

The one difference that will keep your engine happy is this

CHANGE YOUR OIL FREQUENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



end of discussion.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER IN my mind would I EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER leave my oil for 2000kilometers EVER!

thats what gets you metal shavings

that and high revs

ever read the owners manual?, NOTICE it also says to change brake fluid every season? who does that? nobody, well I do. it makes me happy...

if racing the bike every 400 miles...no Im no pro, but I love doing maintenance and keeping the bike happy, its the sailor in me.

If you burn the oil or get to 300plus degress, change the oil imediately

its when you keep using burnt oil and leave it in the engine and keep running the engine with BURNT oil that you get problems

I think its laziness, people dont like to do maintenance and less when they have to pay someone to do it.

for one its not its proper viscosity(oil), its sheared...

just listen to your engine

as soon as you hear a rattly engine, or its hard to shift between neutral and 1st its tome for an oil change

dont ask, dont tell

just change the oil

Im such a beilever in frequent oil changes it drives me crazy when someone would even argue against it, its like arguing against fresh oxygen or a clean air filter...

yes the bike will run, but why do it?
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:54 PM   #4421
elsalvadorklr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipper2680 View Post
El SalvadorKLR

Sorry, but i have to disagree with you..

All the 600 and 650 RFVC engines are prone to overheating....This is what i have noticed so far:

stock: XR600R

gets too hot easily...its a air/oil cooled engine...if the oil gets too hot, the oil will get burned, black as tarmac with just 1500-2000 kms...i noticed metal shavings and that metallic paste glued to the magnetic drain.Sorry but changing oil every 500kms is a waste of time and money that you can spent on gas and riding..

fully kitted XR640R

its not possible to run a fully kitted XR without a oil cooler.You can but the engine will last 1/3 of the time.Will get over 120C very very easily..

fully kitted XR640R+oil cooler+sinthetic oil

you can ride it all day long on highway or single tracks..the temperature as soon as gets 90-100C will stabilize.Does not get higher or lower. This is a perfect temperature between oil viscoity, oil lifetime and engine performance.
Why? Because the temperature you get on the frame is the lower temperature.In fact the engine is running hotter.The frame works as a oil cooler. When i say that im getting 90-100C this means that the oil after being cooled on the oil cooler, arrives to the frame at this temp.The engine is hotter.

I used to ride very hard on the street, and even so, beside the fact that the engine is completely upgraded and way more powerful, it does produce less metal residues. This proves that the engine is working better and will last longer. i have more than 15.000kms of hard riding on the streets and about 3.500 kms off-road.Its does not burn oil, starts easily hot or cold, and sounds great. The only thing i noticed about sinthetic oil, is the fact that you can ear the engine noises louder. But that is common with these kind of oils.

Completely Stock SLR650 (XR650L,Dominator,FMX,Vigor) engine:

oh boy....how fast can you say "burning hot"....eheheh...and then owners say: "I dont understand why my exhaust valves and seals are so burned up..." "My engine started burning oil only after 20.000kms...." "my RFVC is smoking blue on startup....what can this be?"



I can strongly say that my kitted engine will last longer that a stock 600 engine...period

Why cant people just admit that Honda enginneers failed when they did not install an oil cooler as stock like on the 400 and 250?Is it common to ear 250 and 400 complaining about constant overheating?


Even so, every one of us has the right of choice to install or not, an oil cooler.And i do respect that choice.
I agree on the valve seat issues commonly found on the XR650L engine, for one its a bigger cylinder, piston in the same mass of engine...more heat, plus it has a different carb and emissions crap

HONDA did not fail...absolutely untrue statement

to each their own...

thats awesome you got 15k miles out of your race engine, but saying honda failed on the xr600 is wrong...

its peoples/riders lack of understanding and failure to maintain their engine that causes catastrophic blow ups and such

For example I can give you about 8 threads here and on thumpertalk of people FAILING to prime their oil pump after a complete engine rebuild

how is that hondas fault?

just saying

we disagree on certain important facts

I tend to side with human error being more of an issue than inherent engine design faults...

honda unlike others have very few BIG design faults...

others will have more substantial proof and opinions

ask steve

he KNOWS! jajajajaja
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #4422
elsalvadorklr
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2 strokes for the woods/enduro?

hey I know its off topic

but, to change the subject a bit

WHAT 2 stroker would you guys think would be fun and easier to ride in enduro rides?

exc250
little cr125r something like that?

I need a small light, LIGHT fast revving 2 strokes so I dont kill my xr600 or get myself killed is a better word at these BAJA ENDURO races I have been doing lately

its pretty much what eastcoast usa riders ride...i THINK its similar terrain t gncc stuff, or harescrambles to you guys up north

what say you?

MAYBE I can find a cool little 2 stroker project to keep me busy during the rainy(winter) season down here

cheers

christian
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #4423
mcma111
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Kawasaki KDX200. I had a matched pair for the daughters. The four stroke of two stroke bikes. Just like a XR anvil but a 2 smoker. FMF pipe and Boysen reeds and your set.
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BMW's
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79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:42 PM   #4424
zipper2680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr View Post
I agree on the valve seat issues commonly found on the XR650L engine, for one its a bigger cylinder, piston in the same mass of engine...more heat, plus it has a different carb and emissions crap

HONDA did not fail...absolutely untrue statement

to each their own...

thats awesome you got 15k miles out of your race engine, but saying honda failed on the xr600 is wrong...

its peoples/riders lack of understanding and failure to maintain their engine that causes catastrophic blow ups and such

For example I can give you about 8 threads here and on thumpertalk of people FAILING to prime their oil pump after a complete engine rebuild

how is that hondas fault?

just saying

we disagree on certain important facts

I tend to side with human error being more of an issue than inherent engine design faults...

honda unlike others have very few BIG design faults...

others will have more substantial proof and opinions

ask steve

he KNOWS! jajajajaja

Sorry but the Factory Honda Manual (not Clymer or Haynes) that i have says 1000miles (1600kms) for oil changes.If you change oil more often that this, in that case you are using more oil than a 2 stroke :)

I do clean my air filter, oil strainer, frame filter and so on....what about 20.000kms on a transmission kit??am i lazy with maintenance?nope...

I do not refer to human failure..you get people servicing their bikes on the clock and on honda dealers, and all that i mentioned happens...

What about the common failure on 2nd and 3rd gear? did you know that Honda replaced those parts with hardened surface gears? these are common on the 600 and 650....i experienced that, even with good maintenance (twice)..with sinthethic oil, never happened again...

BTW: in almost 20.000kms after rebuild i never burned my oil...thats why, after 2000kms, i can still see the red colour of Motul oil...not a black sluge.

Even so, its a true statement that if you change your oil more often, your engine will last longer.If you use sinthetic oil, you can change it later.Its a question of oil quality.

The 650 engines, had a bigger piston, but developing less power. The carb and all the emissions crap were installed by Honda....not us..thats why people remove them and let them breathe.If you keep them, engine life time will be reduced.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:14 PM   #4425
elsalvadorklr
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zipper im not saying you arer lazy, it was a common statement very COMMON on these threads these days with xr owners...

2nd and 3rd gear failures are common because thats what people trash their xrs on...they ride the most on those gears...

my xt600 had the common 5th gear whinning or failure, guess why? because people like to lug the engine on the highway at low revs, and the thumping piston of a big bore piston causes enough damage at those revs, solution rev higher in 4th or go faster in 5th!

another example:

My mitsubishi montero 1986, has a winding noise in 3rd gear, guess why? its because it was used the most, yet it has 250,000 MILES on it...stock tranny

no I didnt put those miles on it, the first owner did...I have put 10k miles on it already and have done 5 oil changes

I do not like synthetic you do, thats cool...I dont like it because people get fooled into beleiving its a better oil and then they go on to keep the same oil for 3k miles and then say hey look what happened? i busted my engine?

clymer manuals suck

look at honda manual

lastly

Im not trying to argue but i change my oil every 600miles or so thats every 1k kilomteres, which is half what you do, but I use dino oil 15-40 and add a thickener if Im lazy and dont want to change the oil

in my book dino oil to synthetic oil change interval WE HAVE THE SAME ROUTINE MAINTENENCE shcedule given the fact that synthetic is supposed to last twice as long

so in the end we do the same

go figure!

ride on fellow xr rider

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