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Old 06-19-2009, 12:44 AM   #46
scrminbanshee
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:02 AM   #47
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambraa
Hi Lukas
Yes, you're right, that's the front end and wheels from a 2004 R6.
(If you want to know more about the bike I posted some info in the DR owners tread...ca page 20 I think)
How are your Cobra doing? Are you building from scratch or using a donor car?

I've put my FI project on hold for a couple of weeks now as I had to sort out the last few issues with the DMW....all the mods have been approved and I will have my licence plate on wednesday! Have been working on it for about one and a half years, so it's a good feeling

I've tried some new parts since last update on the FI. The GSXR TB's fits quite good. They are not bolt on, but the good thing is that they will fit inside the original rubber intakes. The outer diameter is about 1mm larger than the DR carbs so a bit of extra force is needed. So far the intakes holds up fine with no signs of cracks from the extra "stretching". The spacing is about 2mm wider than the carbs and is easily fixed with a file. The hard part was the fuelrail as it's made of aluminum. The old fuel residues inside it developed gases when heated, so welding it without leaks was a bit tricky. What's not so good is that the inner diameter turned out to be 38mm, not 36 as the local sales rep told me. The moral is, always use at least two sources for information...a quick google search would have told me they were 38mm....

Also looked at a fuel pump from a KTM 690. It's really small with a separate fuel regulator. Both the pump and the regulator is fitted from the outside of the fueltank. A friend of mine is using these on the Brudeli Leanster and I think the mounting brackets he's using can be welded to my gastank and the stock DR tank. The bad thing is that KTM parts are expensive ($380 total in the US, probably more in Europe).

Here is the parts fiche from KTM and some pictures of the GSXR TB's.

Amund,

The poor Cobra has been on hold for almost two years. It's a kit from Factory Five Racing in the US, and I am going with mostly new or reconditioned parts. No donor. Problem is that I moved to Madrid and the few times I am in Vienna I don't have time to drive to our weekend house where it is stored. I hope to move it into the new garage this summer however, and will also document the build in a thread once I get going on it again.

Regarding your fuel pump, finding an external one that works is not that easy as I can confirm. They are either made for cars and draw too much electricity, or they are in-tank ones that need to submersed in fuel for cooling. One thing I have been considering for my other project - 650 twin with FI in a KTM LC4-Adv chassis - is this pump from CA-Cyleworks:



It puts out 3.5 bar and is somewhat reasonably priced at $150. I was going to combine it with a pressure regulator from Aeromotive that has a return line. Here is the link if you want to know more:

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/ca...ml#fuel%20tank
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LukasM screwed with this post 10-26-2009 at 05:50 AM
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:16 PM   #48
ambraa OP
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Fuel injection, part 2

It has been a while since my last post here. I was really fed up when things did not work last year but during the winter I could not resist to give it another try.

The main problem last time was lack of fuel at WOT so now I have changed the fuelpump to an in-tank from a GSXR1000 and a fuelfilter from a 2001 fireblade. It made a big difference, the max values in the VE table dropped from close to 200 to below 100 and it looks like it is still running a bit rich. I have not had the time to tune much yet, just made it start and idle and done a couple of short runs, but it already accelrates really good and the response feels better than the CV carbs

I have also changed from pure alpha-n (rpm-tps)to speed density (map signal) and it works good so far. Seems to be a lot easier and less time consuming to tune. The map signal is a little low and unstable at idle so I'm going to try a blend to see if that makes it better.

I'll write more details when I'm sure that things are working this time.
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Old 05-09-2010, 03:11 PM   #49
1989jojo
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yeah its on! keep up! NICE!
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:38 PM   #50
ambraa OP
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Fuel injection ok

I'm done, finally!
Still have a bit of tuning to do but the bike is running very well with the Megasquirt now. It has a bit more power than with the carbs (more difference than I expected but nothing revolutionary...) and the response is much better. So all in all I'm satisfied. It took a lot more time and cost a bit more than I planned for. Not a very big surprise though

The final setup:
Megasquirt II ECU
GSXR 600 throttlebodies 01-03
GSXR 1000 in tank fuel pump 07
Homemade CLT sensor in valvecover
GM IAT sensor
Pickup from original VR sensor
Innovate LC-1 AFR sensor
Alpha-N fueling (Map signal too weak and unstable for proper tuning)

I was a bit worried about the charging system not giving enough power but I have tested for about 160-170km now and the battery is still fully charged. (Icluding a lot of start/stop for tuning)

It has been a time consuming project with a pretty steep learning curve but if someone else would like to try I would not hesitate to recommend it!
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:40 AM   #51
LukasM
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That's great Amund, congrats!

Would love to see some more pictures. How did you set up the in-tank pump on your carbed tank? Are you running ignition off the MS as well or just fueling?

Lukas
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:56 AM   #52
DRjoe
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Good to here it all worked out for you.
Now its time for you to post some pics for us stupid folk who cant read.
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:57 AM   #53
subybaja
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Moar pics!

And for us KLR riders- got prices?
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Old 05-17-2010, 01:14 AM   #54
morse
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Yei!!!

I'm your biggest fan
How would you describe the behaiviour in lower speeds? Is it too nervous like LC8 Adventure?

Ofcourse you can tune your way out of such problems. With the KTM you have to go to the dealer's for remapping.

Anyways, Congrats!
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:09 AM   #55
ambraa OP
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Thank you!

I'm a bit busy the next few days, but I'll post some more pictures as soon as I can.

I have plans for ignition as well but I'm no engine expert so I guess it's safer to do them one at a time.

The left coil takes up a lot of the space where I had to put the fuel pump so it is a thight fit. (GS550 fuel tank) I had to remove the plastic around the pump and use a filter from a 2001 fireblade. I also made an adapter for the pressure regulator and modified the metal cup that the pump sits in. I thought the base of the tank might be too week for the extra weight of the pump unit but both the tank and the welds seem to hold up so far.

The original DR tank is also made of steel and it seems to be enough space to cut out the bottom in one of the sides and weld in a mount for a similar pump unit as mine.

The costs then...
Fuelpump on ebay - ca $100
Fuel filter from Honda - ca $80 (might find a whole unit with pump for less on ebay but I wanted a fresh one)
Megasquirt with stimulator - $300
Innovate LC-1 with gauge - $200 (useful to have the gauge to watch while you drive, but not a must have)
Fuses, wire and other materials - $75-100
Throttlebodies - $100
Air filters - $75 (might not need theese on an original bike)

+ quite a few hours in the garage

I don't think the FI itself would cause any trouble if you want a smooth low rpm operation and combined with ignition cotrol you have a lot of oportunities. I rarely drive it below 2500rpm other than start/stop but the feel is smooth and very little stumbeling when going off/on throttle. I have not done a lot of fine tuning yet so it should be possible to make it better too.
I can see from the numbers in the VE table that it needs a lot of fuel the first 5% or so of throttle opening, compared to idle. I guess this is because the TB's are a bit big. (it causes a big increase in airflow just when you open the throttle from idle) Maybe a set of smaller TB's or the ones with a vacuum slide from the R6 will make it better.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:10 PM   #56
1989jojo
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Thumb

Hi Ambraa, glad it worked out

As you use 36mm tb's, isnt there an edge at the inlet, or is the inlet-size of the head 36mm ,too?
What would u think of 40mm tb's, cause the valves are that big, or could that be crap at lower revs? thought with fi there were no gas-speed problems at all...

how did u solve the problem with different air pressures at different heights?
theres just a temperature-sensor, no pressure sensor, right?

btw we want pics! ur bike also looks nice besides the efi-thing
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:31 PM   #57
ambraa OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1989jojo
Hi Ambraa, glad it worked out

As you use 36mm tb's, isnt there an edge at the inlet, or is the inlet-size of the head 36mm ,too?
What would u think of 40mm tb's, cause the valves are that big, or could that be crap at lower revs? thought with fi there were no gas-speed problems at all...

how did u solve the problem with different air pressures at different heights?
theres just a temperature-sensor, no pressure sensor, right?

btw we want pics! ur bike also looks nice besides the efi-thing
Thaks:-)

The TB's are 38mm actually. Was told they were 36mm, but turned out to be 38 when I got them. It seems to be a good size and the throttle feel and response is very good for road use (even though i removed the secondary butterflies). It is not perfect cruising at lover rpm(<3300) but it was like that with the carbs too, so I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the EFI/carbs at all.

I think you will be fine with the 40mm as well, but then you will have to make adapters. The GSXR600 TB's you can squeeze into the original rubber mounts. The carbs have thicker material at the mounting point so the difference in outer diameter is about 1mm.

My bike pulls at least as good at lover rpm now as it did with the carbs on but the biggest difference is at mid to top rpm. As I said it is not perfect at low rpms but I'm not sure if that has to with tuning or the size of the TB's.

The megasquirt (started out with microsquirt but killed it not sure how though...) has a built in map sensor that you can use for baro correction. I tried to use map (speed denisty) for tuning but the difference in vacuum low load/high load was too little so I changed over to alpha-n again.

I've not forgotten about the pics:-) The ones I've taken with the phone earlier is no good. But I'm going to modify some wiring this weekend and will try to take some new ones then.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:14 PM   #58
1989jojo
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im wondering:
where did u pick up the rpm signal for the ecu? and how do you make it processable, so the ecu can work with it? do you need a kind of resistor or somewhat?

greetings from germany
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:15 PM   #59
ambraa OP
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You can tap into the signal from the VR sensor to the CDI and use a resistor as you said. But the signal is not very good because the strip of metal on the flywheel that the sensor picks up the signal from is maybe 25-30 degrees of rotation. The result is a gap in the signal where it crosses zero (ref pickup signals in the megamanual) so my ecu resets at about 6000rpm. The quick fix is to use the tacho signal from the CDI to the dash instead (black/green wire, without the resistor). According to the osscilloscope the signal crosses zero without the gap and the timing is the same as the VR signal.

(The problem with the VR signal will likely be gone when I get the ignition running because of the smaller teeths on a 36-1 wheel).
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:43 PM   #60
ambraa OP
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Pictures

Finaly I got time to take some pictures, you can find them HERE

The wireing is temporary, will redo it with proper connectors and stuff later.

I also managed to fix the unvanted 6000rpm revlimiter....a 20kOhm resistor in series with the VR signal. Now it goes all the way and pulls good to about 7000.
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