ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Fluff > Shiny things
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 175 votes, 4.96 average. Display Modes
Old 01-03-2012, 07:40 AM   #3271
DireWolf
Knees in the Breeze
 
DireWolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: In the Mustard Booyah. Whooop!!
Oddometer: 12,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post


It sits, waiting for other work to get finished first. On deck, finally, the Dire Machete.
On deck?

__________________
Please help Elias' (Toolfan's) young family - they lost a husband and a father: Donation Page: Toolfan Support Fund
DireWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 08:55 PM   #3272
Smithy
Avoiding the Skid-Demon
 
Smithy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: 22310
Oddometer: 7,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by DireWolf View Post
On deck?


Batter up.

It was time to quench again, after extensive grinding and shaping.


First dip in the pool, got a wicked curve to the right. Straight back to the fire, it went, and I forged out the bend and got it all tidy straight again. Normalized a couple times, then back in the water - and again, curve to the right, almost as bad as the first time. 1.5 seconds in, 3 seconds out, 3 seconds in, pull out, and pray...

Listen...

No "tink"...

Whew. Pass blade through fire a couple times to warm up to tempering heat, pull it out, watch the bend recede somewhat, then cool in the bucket to room temp.

Upon close inspection, it appears I did not crack this blade, even though it's long and kinda thin W1 steel, in very hot water. No clay this time, I wanted a clear view of the surface and the ability to manage my heat evenly.

It's also a considerable challenge to evenly heat 18 inches of steel in a forge only 12 inches or so deep, with a hot spot.


Now it's in the oven, tempering at 425*F, after which I will gently try to massage out the bend in the blade. Maybe I'll temper it twice, again at 450, before doing that. My mistake on round one was to try and bend untempered martenisite, with dramatic and painful results. If this works, and tomorrow evening I have a straight blade, it'll get finished, sharpened, and shipped this week. The grip won't take but a couple hours at most, and cleanup about the same.

So here's hoping against hope that the hard part is behind me. I hate to have to refund a man's money, and this has taken quite long enough, thank you.
__________________
Consultant, Geospatial Science at Viking Geographic LLC Always Exploring
Proprietor of The Tidewater Forge Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.
35 Years of Scouting Blog for Bushcrafting and Boy Scouting experiences.
Smithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 06:12 AM   #3273
RogueClimber
"Tacticool"
 
RogueClimber's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Oddometer: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Batter up.

It was time to quench again, after extensive grinding and shaping.
Sounds like you had quite a New Years party

I really am waiting for this to be done. Your work is amazing and I am in awe as you describe how the process occurs.
__________________
"To the everlasting glory of the Infantry!"
Diligentia -- Vis -- Celeritas
Rob

Save $5 on SmugMug-- zpTBLRFvcME2c
RogueClimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 08:06 AM   #3274
DireWolf
Knees in the Breeze
 
DireWolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: In the Mustard Booyah. Whooop!!
Oddometer: 12,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Batter up.
Wow.

I'm sorry, man.
__________________
Please help Elias' (Toolfan's) young family - they lost a husband and a father: Donation Page: Toolfan Support Fund
DireWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 10:30 AM   #3275
Smithy
Avoiding the Skid-Demon
 
Smithy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: 22310
Oddometer: 7,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by DireWolf View Post
Wow.

I'm sorry, man.

Sorry for what? It's not quite done, but it's not dead either. I'm giving it 24 hours for any unconverted Austenite to turn into Martensite, then temper again this evening. After that, when I'm sure there's no dangerous brittleness in the blade, I'll try working out the kink, then finish up. Shouldn't be too hard if the Gods aren't frowning on me.
__________________
Consultant, Geospatial Science at Viking Geographic LLC Always Exploring
Proprietor of The Tidewater Forge Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.
35 Years of Scouting Blog for Bushcrafting and Boy Scouting experiences.
Smithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 10:55 AM   #3276
DireWolf
Knees in the Breeze
 
DireWolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: In the Mustard Booyah. Whooop!!
Oddometer: 12,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Sorry for what?
The pain in your ass this seems to be.

Sounds more technically difficult than I ever imagined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
I'm giving it 24 hours for any unconverted Austenite to turn into Martensite




Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Shouldn't be too hard if the Gods aren't frowning on me.
I will sacrifice a virgin something or other tonight so they may smile upon you.
__________________
Please help Elias' (Toolfan's) young family - they lost a husband and a father: Donation Page: Toolfan Support Fund
DireWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 11:29 AM   #3277
Smithy
Avoiding the Skid-Demon
 
Smithy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: 22310
Oddometer: 7,744
Long blades are always a challenge, which is why I don't do many, and why this one has been slow - lots of variables to control.

Martensite is the hard crystal formation in hardened steel. It can also be as brittle as glass. The knife that cracked before I hardened yours, I was able to snap with my hands like a potato chip, at the weak point.

Tempering is that process which "softens" the physical structure, dulls the needle-like crystals in the steel, and provides flexibility and toughness to a hard blade.

Quenching is what makes Martensite, because at heat, everything is in solution and swimming around - freezing that action puts a lot of stress into steel. But, not all martensite is formed right away - sometimes it can take up to a day for all the other "loose" material to form up, so even though it was tempered once, tempering again later catches anything that was late to the party.

Kevin Cashen, a phd metallurgist, explains this really well in an old article that seems to be lost from the net, but he has a "rosetta stone" of metal terms here: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-Rosetta-Stone

Here's his website, with a longer explanation of heat treatment: http://www.cashenblades.com/heattreatment.html
__________________
Consultant, Geospatial Science at Viking Geographic LLC Always Exploring
Proprietor of The Tidewater Forge Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.
35 Years of Scouting Blog for Bushcrafting and Boy Scouting experiences.
Smithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 11:57 AM   #3278
DireWolf
Knees in the Breeze
 
DireWolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: In the Mustard Booyah. Whooop!!
Oddometer: 12,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Long blades are always a challenge, which is why I don't do many, and why this one has been slow - lots of variables to control.

Martensite is the hard crystal formation in hardened steel. It can also be as brittle as glass. The knife that cracked before I hardened yours, I was able to snap with my hands like a potato chip, at the weak point.

Tempering is that process which "softens" the physical structure, dulls the needle-like crystals in the steel, and provides flexibility and toughness to a hard blade.

Quenching is what makes Martensite, because at heat, everything is in solution and swimming around - freezing that action puts a lot of stress into steel. But, not all martensite is formed right away - sometimes it can take up to a day for all the other "loose" material to form up, so even though it was tempered once, tempering again later catches anything that was late to the party.

Kevin Cashen, a phd metallurgist, explains this really well in an old article that seems to be lost from the net, but he has a "rosetta stone" of metal terms here: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-Rosetta-Stone

Here's his website, with a longer explanation of heat treatment: http://www.cashenblades.com/heattreatment.html
I figured they were different crystal structures in steel, but didn't get the rest.

Cool stuff, thanks.
__________________
Please help Elias' (Toolfan's) young family - they lost a husband and a father: Donation Page: Toolfan Support Fund
DireWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 12:47 PM   #3279
EvilGenius
1.5 Finger Discount
 
EvilGenius's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Oddometer: 20,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Long blades are always a challenge, which is why I don't do many, and why this one has been slow - lots of variables to control.

Martensite is the hard crystal formation in hardened steel. It can also be as brittle as glass. The knife that cracked before I hardened yours, I was able to snap with my hands like a potato chip, at the weak point.

Tempering is that process which "softens" the physical structure, dulls the needle-like crystals in the steel, and provides flexibility and toughness to a hard blade.

Quenching is what makes Martensite, because at heat, everything is in solution and swimming around - freezing that action puts a lot of stress into steel. But, not all martensite is formed right away - sometimes it can take up to a day for all the other "loose" material to form up, so even though it was tempered once, tempering again later catches anything that was late to the party.

Kevin Cashen, a phd metallurgist, explains this really well in an old article that seems to be lost from the net, but he has a "rosetta stone" of metal terms here: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-Rosetta-Stone

Here's his website, with a longer explanation of heat treatment: http://www.cashenblades.com/heattreatment.html
A good way for noobs to experience this is to use more simple metals like copper and brass.

They work harden easily, quench easily, temper easily and are good at being obvious examples of the differences.

I remember workin with copper, you could make it hard like glass, then heat it up pretty hot and walk away for a while, when you came back its almost be the consistency of playdoh.
__________________
"Try turning that burn into torque. Then we're getting somewhere. Riding the potato to work seems quite impractical." - anotherguy

"Never bring a Nerf gun to a shovel fight." - My Brother
EvilGenius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 01:45 PM   #3280
Smithy
Avoiding the Skid-Demon
 
Smithy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: 22310
Oddometer: 7,744
Actually, ferrous and non-ferrous materials are the opposite. Quenching hot copper anneals it, while it hardens steel.

The Complete Metalsmith, by Tim McCreight, lays out the method for hardening silver by heating it evenly, soaking at heat, and then letting slow cool - the even arrangement of material makes it rigid, where as the irregular arrangement of material softens it.
__________________
Consultant, Geospatial Science at Viking Geographic LLC Always Exploring
Proprietor of The Tidewater Forge Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.
35 Years of Scouting Blog for Bushcrafting and Boy Scouting experiences.
Smithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 01:54 PM   #3281
EvilGenius
1.5 Finger Discount
 
EvilGenius's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Oddometer: 20,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Actually, ferrous and non-ferrous materials are the opposite. Quenching hot copper anneals it, while it hardens steel.

The Complete Metalsmith, by Tim McCreight, lays out the method for hardening silver by heating it evenly, soaking at heat, and then letting slow cool - the even arrangement of material makes it rigid, where as the irregular arrangement of material softens it.
I must've been doing it wrong then.
__________________
"Try turning that burn into torque. Then we're getting somewhere. Riding the potato to work seems quite impractical." - anotherguy

"Never bring a Nerf gun to a shovel fight." - My Brother
EvilGenius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 05:31 PM   #3282
marchyman
Cam Killer
 
marchyman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Oddometer: 7,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by tslewisz View Post
A gift from my fiance.



Thanks for tip, Snipe.
So how well does it work in practice?
marchyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 07:20 PM   #3283
tslewisz
Beastly Adventurer
 
tslewisz's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Bloomington, IL
Oddometer: 2,343
I love it. Even put a new shelf above my bench so it'll be handy.
tslewisz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 05:12 AM   #3284
Apocalypse Cow
SHEEP LIE!!!!!
 
Apocalypse Cow's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Outstanding in my field.
Oddometer: 378
My wife picked one up for me for Christmas, after a little hinting on my part, and I have been getting knives from all of the neighbors to sharpen.
It works great.
__________________
If god had meant for us to be vegetarians he would have made brocccoli more fun to shoot at.

"I've set the bar high because I'm tired ducking."
Apocalypse Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 01:37 PM   #3285
Mr. Fisherman
Wishin not fishin.
 
Mr. Fisherman's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: In the Cone of Shame
Oddometer: 10,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
So how well does it work in practice?
Yes, very well indeed. Just this morning my son commented on how much sharper our serrated steak knifes are now.

It is nice to have sharp scissors too
Mr. Fisherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014