Aviation MegaThread!!!! - Page 135

I_FLY_LOW · 08-31-2011, 06:17 AM

For him to be flying that type of aircraft, that was a pretty noob mistake to make, especially full of passengers...
Could have been a lot worse.
Glad everyone made it out safely in the end.

Lornce · 08-31-2011, 07:46 AM

I seem to remember a similar situation in Florida a few years ago. Jump plane full of sky-divers augering in. Someone even caught it on video.

No False Enthusiasm · 08-31-2011, 07:47 AM

My guess is the spin was intentional... kept the aircraft in the jumper camera's field of view, along with the other jumpers.

It spun for a long time... recovered when the after the last jumper exited.

Watch the pilots during rotation... they didn't seem to initiate recovery for a long time.

Aircraft recovered with no drama from slow rotation... makes me think it was intentional.

Cover story was necessary to prevent loss of license.

NFE

Lornce · 08-31-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm

My guess is the spin was intentional... kept the aircraft in the jumper camera's field of view, along with the other jumpers.

It spun for a long time... recovered when the after the last jumper exited.

Watch the pilots during rotation... they didn't seem to initiate recovery for a long time.

Aircraft recovered with no drama from slow rotation... makes me think it was intentional.

Cover story was necessary to prevent loss of license.

NFE

That's what I was thinking.

kamanya · 08-31-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm

My guess is the spin was intentional... kept the aircraft in the jumper camera's field of view, along with the other jumpers.

It spun for a long time... recovered when the after the last jumper exited.

Watch the pilots during rotation... they didn't seem to initiate recovery for a long time.

Aircraft recovered with no drama from slow rotation... makes me think it was intentional.

Cover story was necessary to prevent loss of license.

NFE

The guy who was taking the paraplegic chap says not.

Some debate going on here;

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=83041

No False Enthusiasm · 08-31-2011, 08:43 AM

I'd bet those involved are sticking to the cover story...

At 3:30 and after, those in the aircraft are relaxed. The jumpers remaining are casually checking their altimeters, waiting for their exit altitude. The pilots are relaxed, with the stall fully developed. No one as any sense of urgency.

My experiences in flight were that when something went wrong, we became very focused.

This looks to be a Turbo Beaver, an STOL aircraft that would be difficult to inadvertently stall in level flight... especially after half its load has departed.

Interesting to note that neither pilot wore a chute. Not exactly kosher.

Just my thoughts...

NFE

I_FLY_LOW · 08-31-2011, 08:49 AM

I just wouldn't think it'd be a smart idea, to spin an aircraft, with people exiting at the same time, much less spinning it loaded with people, in the first place...

Lornce · 08-31-2011, 08:59 AM

Things are different in Zambia.

PunkinHead · 08-31-2011, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm

My guess is the spin was intentional... kept the aircraft in the jumper camera's field of view, along with the other jumpers.

It spun for a long time... recovered when the after the last jumper exited.

Watch the pilots during rotation... they didn't seem to initiate recovery for a long time.

Aircraft recovered with no drama from slow rotation... makes me think it was intentional.

Cover story was necessary to prevent loss of license.

NFE

That was exactly my thought, despite the text saying it was an accident. Way too slow to initiate recovery if it wasn't intentional. Besides, spins are fun.

kamanya · 08-31-2011, 09:15 AM

The plane is a turbine conversion of an ex South African Air Force plane called a Kudu built under licence from these guys;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aermacchi_AL-60

The conversion does good things to the hp obviously.

freeflow · 08-31-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm

My guess is the spin was intentional... kept the aircraft in the jumper camera's field of view, along with the other jumpers.

It spun for a long time... recovered when the after the last jumper exited.

Watch the pilots during rotation... they didn't seem to initiate recovery for a long time.

Aircraft recovered with no drama from slow rotation... makes me think it was intentional.

Cover story was necessary to prevent loss of license.

NFE

the jumpers in the back did nothing to help the AFT cg situation. no, jumpers did not go up to intentional try a spin....and the one dude was going for the door until camera guy stopped him due to his reserve handle flopping all over the place. it was chaos...they didn;t look that calm and the plane in a spin would descend vertical in the field of view of the tandem pair. ...then they grounded the plane pending a stress analysis...

Pilot failed to maintain airspeed during jumper climbout. nose over when changing the weight and balance and adding alot of parasitic drag......yeah, I've flown many skydiver loads....

XR650L_Dave · 08-31-2011, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamanya

Houston we have a problem.... Spinning and skydiving...

The last bullet point is priceless.

Dave

No False Enthusiasm · 08-31-2011, 10:21 AM

The aircraft is a Kudu... http://www.angelskydive.co.za/atlasa...th-africa.html

Turbo conversion, STOL, similar in design and utility to the Turbo Beaver...

Pilot in the red shirt seems casual... looks back, visits with the remaining jumpers while spinning.

If the spin was not planned, why did the remaining jumpers remain with the aircraft while sitting in the door?

Grounding the plane to check for stress furthers the cover story of accidental standard flight departure with late recovery.

I still believe the aircraft spin was part of the photo op... but that's just my opinion.

NFE

Andyinhilo · 08-31-2011, 11:10 AM

May not have been intentional, but the pilot(s) held it in the spin. If you look at the elevator where it shows up at least twice in the vid, it appears to be held in the up position. That would keep the a/c stalled, and it would spin as long as the rudder input was held.

BogeyMan · 08-31-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm

My guess is the spin was intentional... kept the aircraft in the jumper camera's field of view, along with the other jumpers.

It spun for a long time... recovered when the after the last jumper exited.

Watch the pilots during rotation... they didn't seem to initiate recovery for a long time.

Aircraft recovered with no drama from slow rotation... makes me think it was intentional.

Cover story was necessary to prevent loss of license.

NFE

Looks like a Pilatus Porter to me. I have many skydives out of one of those.

The only difference I can see is the Porter I remember (when I was back in the UK, reg G-OAPA, I think) the door was on the right. It could carry nine jumpers I think. That plane can descend so fast, I have memories of jumping out of it an 12,000 ft, free-falling to around 3,000 ft, deploying my parachute and then looking down to see the plane landing and picking up the next load of jumpers. It would be back in the air, on its way to jump altitude before my feet were on the ground.

08-31-2011, 07:46 AM	#2012
Lornce Lost In Place Joined: Aug 2003 Location: Way Out There. Oddometer: 15,990	I seem to remember a similar situation in Florida a few years ago. Jump plane full of sky-divers augering in. Someone even caught it on video. __________________ Across Canada on a '83 R80G/S-PD Across Canada on a '71 R50/5 My Garage Of Doom *Wear The Fox Hat*

08-31-2011, 08:59 AM	#2018
Lornce Lost In Place Joined: Aug 2003 Location: Way Out There. Oddometer: 15,990	Things are different in Zambia. __________________ Across Canada on a '83 R80G/S-PD Across Canada on a '71 R50/5 My Garage Of Doom *Wear The Fox Hat*

08-31-2011, 09:15 AM	#2020
kamanya Andrew to most Joined: Jun 2004 Location: Southern Tip of Africa Oddometer: 1,113	The plane is a turbine conversion of an ex South African Air Force plane called a Kudu built under licence from these guys; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aermacchi_AL-60 The conversion does good things to the hp obviously. __________________ I often wonder where that road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. Appologies to Mr Frost

08-31-2011, 11:10 AM	#2024
Andyinhilo Beastly Adventurer Joined: May 2008 Location: Hilo, Hawaii Oddometer: 1,324	May not have been intentional, but the pilot(s) held it in the spin. If you look at the elevator where it shows up at least twice in the vid, it appears to be held in the up position. That would keep the a/c stalled, and it would spin as long as the rudder input was held. __________________ "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."J. Cooper

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08-31-2011, 06:17 AM	#2011
I_FLY_LOW Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Oddometer: 2,249	For him to be flying that type of aircraft, that was a pretty noob mistake to make, especially full of passengers... Could have been a lot worse. Glad everyone made it out safely in the end.

08-31-2011, 07:47 AM	#2013
No False Enthusiasm a quiet adventurer Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Small Town, Texas Oddometer: 3,436	My guess is the spin was intentional... kept the aircraft in the jumper camera's field of view, along with the other jumpers. It spun for a long time... recovered when the after the last jumper exited. Watch the pilots during rotation... they didn't seem to initiate recovery for a long time. Aircraft recovered with no drama from slow rotation... makes me think it was intentional. Cover story was necessary to prevent loss of license. NFE

08-31-2011, 08:43 AM	#2016
No False Enthusiasm a quiet adventurer Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Small Town, Texas Oddometer: 3,436	I'd bet those involved are sticking to the cover story... At 3:30 and after, those in the aircraft are relaxed. The jumpers remaining are casually checking their altimeters, waiting for their exit altitude. The pilots are relaxed, with the stall fully developed. No one as any sense of urgency. My experiences in flight were that when something went wrong, we became very focused. This looks to be a Turbo Beaver, an STOL aircraft that would be difficult to inadvertently stall in level flight... especially after half its load has departed. Interesting to note that neither pilot wore a chute. Not exactly kosher. Just my thoughts... NFE

08-31-2011, 08:49 AM	#2017
I_FLY_LOW Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Oddometer: 2,249	I just wouldn't think it'd be a smart idea, to spin an aircraft, with people exiting at the same time, much less spinning it loaded with people, in the first place...

08-31-2011, 10:21 AM	#2023
No False Enthusiasm a quiet adventurer Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Small Town, Texas Oddometer: 3,436	The aircraft is a Kudu... http://www.angelskydive.co.za/atlasa...th-africa.html Turbo conversion, STOL, similar in design and utility to the Turbo Beaver... Pilot in the red shirt seems casual... looks back, visits with the remaining jumpers while spinning. If the spin was not planned, why did the remaining jumpers remain with the aircraft while sitting in the door? Grounding the plane to check for stress furthers the cover story of accidental standard flight departure with late recovery. I still believe the aircraft spin was part of the photo op... but that's just my opinion. NFE