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Old 11-21-2011, 07:30 AM   #2251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyload View Post


A disaster that almost, but didn't, happen....
They fly in and out of DFW all the time.



Edit: Anyone know what's up with the wrinkling of the skin above the wing there?
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EvilGenius screwed with this post 11-21-2011 at 08:07 AM
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:59 AM   #2252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyload View Post

As the attached e-mail reads that came with the photograph:


EVA Air Boeing 747-45EM taking off from runway 36L at Amsterdam Schiphol, Netherlands. The great timing and angle just makes this shot, and the size of the plane just looks surreal. The distance to the fence was about 145 meters (around 475 ft.). Damned close, really. I'm wondering how the computed take-off data compared to the actual event.


From the smallest to the largest aircraft, weight & balance calculations are a critical part of flight safety. From the looks of this aircraft, the weight was within the C.G. envelope, but I reckon if they had added one more marshmallow to each snack tray the outcome might have been a bit different.




Reminds me of the time I was leaving Japan on my way home from Korea in a 'Stretch 8'. Me and another AF guy were watching out the window as the 'runway remaining' markers went by. '1' went by and we were still on the ground. Didn't clear the fence by much. The Army guys didn't have a clue. Crappiest plane ride I ever took.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:08 AM   #2253
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I don't know how any one could determine that B744 was within weight and balance by that photo.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:19 AM   #2254
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
I don't know how any one could determine that B744 was within weight and balance by that photo.
It's airborne...that's usually a good sign.


Seriously though. If the computed C.G. was farther aft than the actual C.G, it makes a big difference at rotation. Meaning some pitch trim adjustments had to be made on the fly...meaning more runway was used than was calculated in the T/O data...which can lead to alot of excitement on the flightdeck in short order, especially once you reach "go" speed...you either fly it or take an off-runway excursion on the far end.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:26 AM   #2255
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Originally Posted by zeerx View Post
Reminds me of the time I was leaving Japan on my way home from Korea in a 'Stretch 8'. Me and another AF guy were watching out the window as the 'runway remaining' markers went by. '1' went by and we were still on the ground. Didn't clear the fence by much. The Army guys didn't have a clue. Crappiest plane ride I ever took.
Years ago my father worked with a WWII/Korea vet that talked about how after one of the two conflicts was over he was leaving on a globemaster off of one of those islands in the pacific with the build a block runways. They were trying to take as many people, equipment and fuel as possible with them and just barely got up enough speed to drop off a little cliff next to the beach and stay aloft in ground effect over the water for a few miles before they could get up enough speed to climb to altitude.

Said it was the most nerve racking experience of the entire war for him.

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Old 11-21-2011, 09:30 AM   #2256
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I should have written that if anyone could tell one way or another whether it was within W&B?

Most likely, or just maybe, there was adequate runway remaining but the depth of field and angle of the photo make it appear clearing the fence by a meter or less. (I would think people wouldn't be sitting around waiting to get creamed....

If not: Even if within CG/WB they could have taken a intersection takeoff, (boo boo for sure) or taken the wrong runway, or used reduced takeoff power when they needed full power, or had a significant tailwind, or were real slow or distracted putting the power in, or actually been in.

Or, it could be just what the picture appears to make it....the jet blast/wake probably would cause some significant damage and thrown those people around like the proverbial rag dolls. Oh, well, who knows?
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:31 AM   #2257
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Maybe they just had a load of fat people with heavy carry-on bags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyload View Post
It's airborne...that's usually a good sign.

Seriously though. If the computed C.G. was farther aft than the actual C.G, it makes a big difference at rotation. Meaning some pitch trim adjustments had to be made on the fly...meaning more runway was used than was calculated in the T/O data...which can lead to alot of excitement on the flightdeck in short order, especially once you reach "go" speed...you either fly it or take an off-runway excursion on the far end.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:33 AM   #2258
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Yeah, I could see having to pry a few seat cushions loose afterwards...

Scariest takeoff I ever experienced was at Cubi Point, in the Phillipines.

Hot day, right at max takeoff weight (769,000 lbs). Runway length was 9000 feet. We back-taxied and used almost all of the overrun before turning a 180 for lineup. Max effort, bleeds off, TRT standing.

Our mains lifted at about 8500 feet.

We were thankful no ships were entering Subic Bay at that time.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:39 AM   #2259
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
I should have written that if anyone could tell one way or another whether it was within W&B?

Most likely, or just maybe, there was adequate runway remaining but the depth of field and angle of the photo make it appear clearing the fence by a meter or less. (I would think people wouldn't be sitting around waiting to get creamed....

If not: Even if within CG/WB they could have taken a intersection takeoff, (boo boo for sure) or taken the wrong runway, or used reduced takeoff power when they needed full power, or had a significant tailwind, or were real slow or distracted putting the power in, or actually been in.

Or, it could be just what the picture appears to make it....the jet blast/wake probably would cause some significant damage and thrown those people around like the proverbial rag dolls. Oh, well, who knows?
Alot of what if's, definitely.

It isn't uncommon at all to see vehicles and people out past the fences off the ends of runways at airports/military bases in Europe. Alot of aviation buffs there.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:44 AM   #2260
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Originally Posted by Heyload View Post


A disaster that almost, but didn't, happen....

Cool photo.

If that is the end of the runway I wonder how the pilots got the seat cushions un-stuck from their rear ends.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:49 AM   #2261
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Or, maybe it was this:

Reactin' in time

Passengers on a plane are waiting for the flight to leave.
The entrance opens, and two men walk up the aisle, dressed in pilot uniforms.
Both are wearing dark glasses.
One is using a seeing-eye dog, and the other is tapping his way up the aisle with a cane.
Nervous laughter spreads through the cabin, but the men enter the cockpit, the door closes, and the engines start.
The passengers begin glancing nervously, searching for some sign that this is just a little practical joke.
None is forthcoming.
The plane moves faster and faster down the runway, and people at the windows realize that they're headed straight for the water at the edge of the airport.
As it begins to look as though the plane will never take off, that it will plow into the water, screams of panic fill the cabin.
But at that moment, the plane lifts smoothly into the air.
Up in the cockpit, the co-pilot turns to the pilot and says, "You know, Bob, one of these days, they're going to scream too late, and we're all gonna die."
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:53 AM   #2262
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Yeah...definitely gonna wander down to the pilots office and share that one.


Right after I clean off this keyboard, bastard.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:03 AM   #2263
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Looks more dramatic then it was.

From that spotters place to the end of the runway is still a few 100 meters.

Check googlemaps for 36L at AMS, there's a roundabout just left (west), opposite of entry 2 to the runway, that's from where the pic is taken, me thinks.

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Old 11-21-2011, 10:25 AM   #2264
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Looks more dramatic then it was.

From that spotters place to the end of the runway is still a few 100 meters.

Check googlemaps for 36L at AMS, there's a roundabout just left (west), opposite of entry 2 to the runway, that's from where the pic is taken, me thinks.

Paul.
Looking at googlemaps and the runway layouts, I am inclined to agree with you on this.

I imagine it's just the angle and use of a telephoto lens on the camera that make it so dramatic.

Still, impressive photo!
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:32 AM   #2265
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Originally Posted by Heyload View Post
I imagine it's just the angle and use of a telephoto lens on the camera that make it so dramatic.
That's what I was thinking. Telephoto compresses the appearance of distance to create a lot of dramatic views taken at the end of runways.

But, as you say, still a remarkable image.


As previously asked: Does anyone have thoughts/opinions on the appearance of wrinkling on the fueselage skin above the wing?



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