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Old 02-10-2012, 06:21 PM   #2581
Hay Ewe
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
The Starship didn't gel.....it's King Air speed and fuel burn with less useful load. It got fat during development. Beech bought them back and disposed of them, except I think there is at least one, maybe two currently for sale.
I think they only built 43 and did buy them all back and then cut them up - except for 1 which I think Scaled Composites (Burt Rutan) has which is on the FAA experimental register.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:55 PM   #2582
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According to Wikki:

"Beech sold only eleven Starships in the three years following its certification. Beech attributed the slow sales to the economic slowdown in the late-1980s, the novelty of the Starship, and the tax on luxury items that was in effect in the United States at the time. In an effort to stimulate demand, Beech began offering two-year leases on new Starships in 1991.[16]

[edit] End of the programThe last Starship, NC-53, was produced in 1995. In 2003 Beechcraft determined that supporting such a small fleet of airplanes was cost-prohibitive and began scrapping and incinerating the aircraft under its control. The aircraft were sent to the Evergreen Air Center located at the Pinal Airpark in Arizona for destruction. Beech worked with owners of privately-owned Starships to replace their airplanes with other Beech aircraft such as the Premier I jet.[17][18]

In 2004 Raytheon sold its entire inventory of Starship parts to a Starship owner for a fraction of its retail value.[19]

Hawker Beechcraft continues to offer support by phone.[20] Rockwell Collins has maintained full support for the AMS-850 avionics suite.


[edit] SurvivorsAs of January 2010[update], nine Starships hold an active registration with the FAA. Three Starships are registered in Oklahoma (NC-29, NC-35 & NC-45), one in Washington (NC-50), one in Colorado (NC-51), and four are registered to Hawker Beechcraft in Wichita, Kansas (NC-2, NC-8, NC-19 & NC-24).[33] NC-51 was used as a chase plane during the re-entry phase of Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne.[34] In October 2008 NC-29 was the first of the five remaining privately-owned airworthy Starships to complete RVSM certification, returning the aircraft's service ceiling to the original FL410 limit.[35]

Evergreen Air Center sold 24 Starships back to private owners for $50,000 each. Most are being used for parts; however, one of these aircraft has since been made airworthy again.[19] Some former Starship parts have been used on the Epic turboprop kitplane.[36]

Queensland Institute for Aviation Engineering in Caloundra, Queensland, Australia, purchased NC-28 in November 2004 for use in various training programs.[37][38] Salt Lake Community College uses a Starship in their Aviation Maintenance program.[39]"
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:31 PM   #2583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hay Ewe View Post
I think they only built 43 and did buy them all back and then cut them up - except for 1 which I think Scaled Composites (Burt Rutan) has which is on the FAA experimental register.
There is one here...or there was...not listed as in the inventory now....Hmmmmm....

http://www.beechcraftheritagemuseum.org/

...and you can go into it. I went with a friend and we were the only two people there. They gave us the run of the place, turning lights on for us as we entered different halls, then leaving us alone to enjoy the collection. It's definitely worth a side trip if you find yourself in the area, just south of Nashville. They have a ridiculous collection of Staggerwings there too. You can do the whole museum in 1-2 hours, and that's taking your time.

They've also got this oddity...

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Old 02-10-2012, 08:08 PM   #2584
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Starship for sale

Here's one for sale: http://www.controller.com/list/list....exact&setype=1


$1.6 million. Same era Piaggio goes for $1.7-$2.0 million.
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:25 PM   #2585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying-D View Post
There is one here...or there was...not listed as in the inventory now....Hmmmmm....

http://www.beechcraftheritagemuseum.org/

...and you can go into it. I went with a friend and we were the only two people there. They gave us the run of the place, turning lights on for us as we entered different halls, then leaving us alone to enjoy the collection. It's definitely worth a side trip if you find yourself in the area, just south of Nashville. They have a ridiculous collection of Staggerwings there too. You can do the whole museum in 1-2 hours, and that's taking your time.

They've also got this oddity...

bonanza twin as oddity? there are over a thousand of them..
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:55 PM   #2586
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Originally Posted by seriousracer View Post
bonanza twin as oddity? there are over a thousand of them..
When's the last time you saw one? I've never seen one parked on a ramp.

When I think of a T-Bone, I think of this, the B50 Twin Bonanza. It was much bigger airplane, and one that I have seen in the past, though not many recently.

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Old 02-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #2587
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Originally Posted by Flying-D View Post


They've also got this oddity...

Check the v-fin / tail - maybe thats what makes it odd
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:18 AM   #2588
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One of the major reasons for the failure of the Starship was that it never did make it's anticipated performance numbers. It was designed without the aid of computational fluid dynamics modeling. When they finally were able to apply that technology to the airframe (after the production run) it was discovered there were gross errors in both the "scaleability" of the canard design and some critical areas of the airframe that induced so much drag it was believed the plane was being "sucked backwards" unnecessarily 30-50 knots. If I recall the P-51, designed in the 40's was more aerodynamically efficient. Aerodynamics don't scale. You can't build a giant Vari-EZ and expect it to work. Beech/Raytheon blamed the economy but the real reasons were the poor performance, and the ridiculously tight cabin. They looked super sexy, but it was all show, and no go.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:21 AM   #2589
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D95 b55?

That oddity is either Beech D95 Travelair D95, or perhaps a early Baron B55 with a V35 Bonanza tail. Could have been an interesting flying plane when operating single engine.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:27 AM   #2590
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Someone else's defense of the Starship...

Here's a link to a Starship owner's web page. http://rps3.com/Pages/Starship-FAQ.htm
It is the FAQ section, if you got to the home section you can navigate to various other parts and pictures. He blames the FAA for the performance shortfall....hmmm....
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:43 AM   #2591
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Quote:
Originally posted by chazbird:

Could have been an interesting flying plane when operating single engine.
I'm guessing the engine out procedure on this aircraft was to pull power on the good engine, then look for a place to dead stick it in... hopefully right side up.

NFE
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:12 AM   #2592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
Here's a link to a Starship owner's web page. http://rps3.com/Pages/Starship-FAQ.htm
It is the FAQ section, if you got to the home section you can navigate to various other parts and pictures. He blames the FAA for the performance shortfall....hmmm....

The fact this guy works with Scaled Composites and Burt Rutan should disqualify him from any "objective" review of the design and bragging that it outperforms a King Air 350 is not saying much. The King Air design is 30+ years older and the 350 has 20% less power than the Starship.

Apples to apples, the Cheyenne 400LS outperformed the Starship in every way, had the same useful load, did not require a type rating and cost 50% of the Starship.

The Starship was a miss for many reasons.

CapCal1000 screwed with this post 02-11-2012 at 11:30 AM
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #2593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
Here's a link to a Starship owner's web page. http://rps3.com/Pages/Starship-FAQ.htm
It is the FAQ section, if you got to the home section you can navigate to various other parts and pictures. He blames the FAA for the performance shortfall....hmmm....
Interesting. Instead of what was suggested earlier about noisey Starships, it claims interior noise levels are quiet as a jet.

Was the 800lb flap system part of the 2,500lbs of FAA mandated modifications added to the original design?

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Old 02-11-2012, 04:01 PM   #2594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying-D View Post
There is one here...or there was...not listed as in the inventory now....Hmmmmm....

http://www.beechcraftheritagemuseum.org/

...and you can go into it. I went with a friend and we were the only two people there. They gave us the run of the place, turning lights on for us as we entered different halls, then leaving us alone to enjoy the collection. It's definitely worth a side trip if you find yourself in the area, just south of Nashville. They have a ridiculous collection of Staggerwings there too. You can do the whole museum in 1-2 hours, and that's taking your time.

They've also got this oddity...

That is a Bay Aviation Super V. According to this article: http://www.airbum.com/articles/Artic...inBonanza.html nine were built, and maybe three still exist. It was granted a different type certificate, and is not considered a Bonanza by the FAA.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:07 PM   #2595
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So we agree...the Piaggio kicks the Starship's ass? True, the 400LS was kinda neat, 350 kts, but around 950 pph, or you could run it at King Air like speeds at 280 kts with King Air beating fuel flow of 490pph. With fuel at $5.50 $6 a gallon I cringe when I think of even 500pph. Today's hot rods are the TBM850 or 700, and the PC12. Oh, well, I guess my screen name should be turbo-prop slut.
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