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Old 06-17-2012, 06:28 PM   #3181
koncha
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Originally Posted by Daniii View Post
I notice a lot of Shermans have extra steel plate armour welded to the side as in this example. I assume that was a weak point in the original design.
That piece covers the crew compartment. It was welded on as an in-field modification. The Germans realized that was a weak point and would aim for it. It was easily penetrable by the 5 cm Pak 38 and even the 3.7cm Pak that was largely obsolete by Normandy. The extra armor gave the crew a chance against the 3.7cm and the 5cm, when fired at an angle.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:37 PM   #3182
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Originally Posted by Klay View Post
They up-armored them, too. Looks like a lot of them had Cummins diesel engines, too.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sherman
Thanks for the link. ( I guess could have found it myself - but Summerinmain says I'm an idiot )

The use of an air cooled engine developing 400 -600 hp seemed like an impossibility to me (having owned a 36hp VW-split window van) but is seems they worked quite well. The old water cooled vs air cooled argument continues to this day (I have a water-cooled Harley ).

Diesel seems a better solution foe a battle tank than gasoline, for obvious reasons.

I still can't find a link for the square plate I see welded to a lot of Shermans.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:14 PM   #3183
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The Sherman used an air cooled radial gasoline engine because they were available...

In theater, diesel was not as readily available as gasoline.

Diesel engine is preferable but even M-48s originally were gasoline powered. Later upgrades included the diesel and the 105mm main gun.

The first US main battle tank to use a diesel was the M60.

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Old 06-17-2012, 07:22 PM   #3184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koncha View Post
That piece covers the crew compartment. It was welded on as an in-field modification. The Germans realized that was a weak point and would aim for it. It was easily penetrable by the 5 cm Pak 38 and even the 3.7cm Pak that was largely obsolete by Normandy. The extra armor gave the crew a chance against the 3.7cm and the 5cm, when fired at an angle.
The side plates covered sponson (sides over the tracks) ammo storage. The plates over the front were to obviously to protect the driver and hull gunner. All of them were kinda wishful thinking, more for morale purposes than practical. Any penetration to the front plate is likey to produce a mission kill, as the behind armor effects (shrapnel bouncing around inside) don't care where the initial penetration occurs.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:05 PM   #3185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniii View Post
I still can't find a link for the square plate I see welded to a lot of Shermans.
Like others have mentioned, it was a field fix for weak points in the armor.

They just slapped thick plates on top ot the most vunerable areas and welded it a few dosen times.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:12 PM   #3186
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I never knew about that airshow....I am going to try to go this year....they have some very cool stuff.

The cavanaugh warbirds looks very intresting....wonder how much of the stuff they fly at that show....have you ever been?
We go every year, the last few they've done it twice a year. Also the last 4-5 I went to the admission was free.

It's usually a saturday and sunday affair with tons of stunt planes, old warbirds and fighter jets. About every other show has helicopter and a-10 demonstrations too.

Randy Ball and his Mig are always there.

Cavanaugh usually has one of their AT-6s, the Skyraider, the OV-1 and either/both the avenger and the wildcat there. They just fly a few circuits, nothing fancy, but nice to see them up there.

The Cavanaugh museum is always worth checking out on the 4th though. They usually have some cool veterans there, give rides in a beautiful old stearman, take the spitfire out for a spin and there's almost always some big WWII bomber stoppig by to give tours and rides.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:14 PM   #3187
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The phenomenon is called "spalling"...

From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spall

Quote:
Antitank warfare

In anti-tank warfare, spalling through mechanical stress is an intended effect of high explosive squash head (HESH) anti-tank shells and many other munitions which may not be powerful enough to pierce the armor of a target. The relatively soft warhead, containing or made of plastic explosive, flattens against the armor plating on tanks and other armored fighting vehicles (AFVs) and explodes, creating a shock wave that travels through the armor as a compression wave and is reflected at the free surface as a tensile wave breaking (tensile stress/strain fracture) the metal on the inside. The resulting spall is dangerous to crew and equipment, and may result in a partial or complete disablement of a vehicle and/or its crew. Many AFVs are equipped with spall liners inside their armor for protection.

A kinetic energy penetrator, if it can defeat the armor, generally causes spalling within the target as well, which helps to destroy/disable the vehicle and/or its crew[1].
For additional protection against HEAT rounds, standoff protection (sandbags, etc) takes the hull outside the focal length of the shaped charge, reducing its effectiveness.

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Old 06-17-2012, 09:55 PM   #3188
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At Tillamook?
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:18 PM   #3189
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The side plates covered sponson (sides over the tracks) ammo storage. The plates over the front were to obviously to protect the driver and hull gunner. All of them were kinda wishful thinking, more for morale purposes than practical. Any penetration to the front plate is likey to produce a mission kill, as the behind armor effects (shrapnel bouncing around inside) don't care where the initial penetration occurs.
I should have been more clear.

The sponson ammo storage on the Sherman wasn't isolated from the crew compartment as it is in modern tanks. On the right side of the Sherman, there are two sponson ammo storage areas and each is roughly bisected by the front and rear edges of the turret race. The left side has only one sponson storage locker located at the front. The plates welded on the sides protected the crew from being killed by a sponson ammo detonation. Protecting the sponson ammo became critical because a discharge would enter the crew compartment instead of blowing out the side or top as in modern tanks.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:53 PM   #3190
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At Tillamook?

Yes.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:15 AM   #3191
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I should have been more clear.

The sponson ammo storage on the Sherman wasn't isolated from the crew compartment as it is in modern tanks. On the right side of the Sherman, there are two sponson ammo storage areas and each is roughly bisected by the front and rear edges of the turret race. The left side has only one sponson storage locker located at the front. The plates welded on the sides protected the crew from being killed by a sponson ammo detonation. Protecting the sponson ammo became critical because a discharge would enter the crew compartment instead of blowing out the side or top as in modern tanks.
This is why the germans always aimed for the star on the side of the turret....thin armor and a good chance of a kaboom.

There is a reason the british called them tommy cookers....they are bad tanks.....and went with stalin's idea that quanity has a quality of its own....sherman fits that to a T.

I think we had an I love this tank thread once...but it died....perhaps with the World of Tanks thread doing so well it is time to bring it back to the top.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:33 AM   #3192
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Also called "Zippos" after the popular cigarette lighter.

Both flamed easily...

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Old 06-18-2012, 10:52 AM   #3193
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loner, lonegunman, get it. That’s the whole point. I like the lifestyle, the image. Look a the way I dress.
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Cavemen must've designed them shortly after inventing the wheel.
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:55 AM   #3194
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loner, lonegunman, get it. That’s the whole point. I like the lifestyle, the image. Look a the way I dress.
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Cavemen must've designed them shortly after inventing the wheel.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:02 AM   #3195
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=27b_1339867680


cant seem to come up with how to post its embedded. But its 16 spitfires flying over in formation at a recent airshow.....thats 16 Merlins singing in chorus. Turn your sound up and enjoy.
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Cavemen must've designed them shortly after inventing the wheel.
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